Thinking of swapping my MG ZTT for a RR 2.5DSE.

HI All,

Thinking of changing my car and getting a RR 2.5DSE.

It's going to have to be an older one, looking around 1998-2000 hopefully depending on price.

What sort of price is a good price aorund those ages bearing in mind most I see have over 100K miles on them?

What are the engines like in them and common faults?

Is auto or manual best? Which gives the least trouble?

My ZTT is on 135K miles currently and has had a full clutch change and is still loosing clutch fluid so I've just about had enough, it uses the same setup as the Freelander 2, I assume the RR uses a different setup?

Oh and what sort of MPG can you expect from these?

Thanks in advance.

Simon

I don't own one but spent a while look for a decent one at the bottom end of the market and did struggle.

I would go for an auto over a manual but beware that the DSE is a sluggish car and the auto only exagerrates this, particularly getting off the line/out of junctions. It didn't bother me on the test drives, but plenty of owners moan about it - a remap can help.

The EAS can be a problem area, generally due to a lack of maintenance from insufficient knowledge - it is rarely serviced. New airbags would be desirable as would a new compressor and/or valve block. If none of this has been refurbished/replaced then you'll need to budget for it; around £100 a corner for new air springs, £100 for a compressor kit or £200 for a new compressor and £500 for a brand new valve block. Check out p38spares.co.uk for parts and spares.

Electrics - there's a lot of them and they do go wrong. Window/sunroof issues tend to be easy to fix, but if the HEVAC (air con/climate control) system has a little book symbol it could mean anything from a minor fault to a failed blend motor - which is pretty much a dashboard-out job to replace. Fine if you're handy at car DIY, not so great if you have to pay a garage to do the work.

One car I looked at and nearly bought turned out to have a leaky diesel injector pump (search my old threads for pics/details). This was enough to put me off buying the car as the repair bill stood at around £700 as the pump has to come off, be refurb'd by a specialist, then refitted and timed to the engine - a big job.

Lastly, tyres - they're expensive on big 4x4's, so buying one with knackered tyres will need £400-£500 spending on it pretty soon after, so just be aware of that too.

If you can find a good one then I do think they're great cars, but don't stretch your budget - try and keep at least £500, maybe £1k in the coffers for repairs. A lot of people sell them when they need work doing to them, it's one of those cars you really have to go over with a fine tooth comb or take a risk on a bargain and be prepared to get your hands dirty!

Thanks Mike, that's a good start of info, I own an MG ZTT so am well versed in getting my hands dirty with my car.

Mine has a BMW M47 Engine the same as fitted to the Freelander 2, what engine does the P38 have? I have read it's a BMW engine?

Tbh although my car is remapped I really am not that interested in raw power more luxury motoring and the ability to go anywhere, truly that will be occasionally most likely, but last year when it snowed I was completely stuck, could not get my car out the carpark, couldnt get the van in the carpaprk etc, thankfully getting stuck one day on the hill towards my house a very nice guy in a RR helped drag me up the hill to get me off the main road, it took all his 4 wheel drive and me trying to get some traction in my van (difficult as it had traction control and just would not move) to get me up the hill, I was so impressed by how it managed it even when he said he'd try but didnt think he would be able to.

Simon

As you say, the 2.5 diesel lump in the P38 is a BMW engine (M57 code), same as fitted to the earlier E39 525D's. Quite a reliable engine by all accounts, just the ancilleries that can fail it at times.

If you do get one, contact Datatek on here about getting the EAS leads and software 9 if the EAS does fail, you can usually wipe the error codes yourself using this to get moving again.

And yes, they're great in the snow - my Classic towed several cars and a 7.5 tonne truck up a hill in the snow on knackered tyres without any problems. My daily driver is a BMW 330Ci, hence the RR purchase as like you I was stranded in the snow the year before living right on top of the Chilterns!

As another option what are LPG converted petrols like?

Even with gas being cheaper I imagine they still dont fair as well as the derv on MPG?

Simon

I actually went for a V8 on LPG in the end, albeit a late-model Classic rather than a P38.

The V8's are much better suited than the diesels in the P38's I would say - smoother and more powerful.

Reliability wise, both have pro's and con's. V8 can suffer from porous blocks and slipped liners, and some think LPG exacerbates these issues.

Conversely diesels can blow turbo's, injector pumps, etc.

Take a look at the other thread on this page about V8's on LPG and use the search function at the top to find out more info, most of the questions you'll think of have been asked and answered before

just my 2p worth but before I got mine (after 2 years of looking) I looked at many of the P38 diesels because of the engine (BMW).

Every one I tried, bearing in mind I came out of a Toyota 4.2 landcruiser, was like driving a boat. Really sluggish and when you gave the engine the beans it sounded worse than the Toyota (that was a 6 cyl)

even tho' I tow the big caravan a lot I decided to go for the 4.6 V8 beastie & get it converted to LPG and, to be honest, even with it's little quirks (of which mine hasn't had many so far) I couldn't be happier - wafts down the road but the power is there if you need/want it

Thanks for your input, tbh I would only consider the V8 if it had already been converted to LPG, what sort of MPG are you getting on gas?

Simon

I've had both a 4.6HSE in the past and now a 2.5DSE that will be my wife's dailey drive.
I loved the V8, gorgeous smooth engine that sounded a bit fruity once I'd sorted the exhaust out. It was already LPG converted before I had it but I would say this about buying a car that has already been converted, ensure it's a well known kit, fitted by a reputable company and has all the certificates with it. I was never fully satisfied with the way it ran on LPG and I've had a Disco with LPG already fitted and again it never seemed to be right. I used to drive from Stockport to Blackburn and back everyday when I had it and most of that was on the motorway but on LPG it was only returning about 13-14mpg.
The DSE is the same spec as my HSE was but obviously, it's diesel. I do think the BMW straight six Diesel is pretty much everybit as smooth as the Rover V8 but that's to do with the engine harmonics of a straight six than anything else. It is much, much slower though so as has been mentioned before, it's pretty slugish. I always thought BMW/Range Rover should have fitted the 3.0 instead of the 2.5 to help it a bit. The engines, although each having potential trouble spots, are generally pretty good so long as they've been looked after. I would suggest that on the diesel new glow plugs and a recondition of the injectors is a very worthwhile thing to have done as it can really help improve on fuel consumption and starting issues. On the petrol it's more routine and regular servicing.
The key thing on P38a's however, are the electrics! If you get one then you need to check everything works and if it doesn't then haggle on the price of the car because it can cost a fair amount to put right, even if you do the work yourself.
I love them, I think they're a great car and still, even at the age that some of them are, feel like a very special place to be when you're driving one.
If you do get one, either petrol or diesel, fit a new, top quality battery to it because it can be a key cause of problems that lead into other problems and so on. Oh, and make sure you get an EKA code for it, if it doesn;t come with one then speak to a dealership, some charge for it, some don't but it's something you really do need to have available to you just in case you need it!

Diesel wins every time, mine averages 24mpg around and about in France and close to 30 mpg on long runs. People say it's sluggish but I think it's more to do with the unusual throttle response, it needs a lot of throttle to get going. Chipped it's easily a match for the V8 but will eat the gearbox. The M51 engine is better suited to the auto box as it has bugger all power below 2500 rpm, the torque converter masks this nicely, with the manual a lot of clutch slip is required.
The engine is reliable if well maintained, regular oil changes etc. Cracked heads occur now and then but I believe that is down to them having been overheated due to other failures like the water pump etc.
Do a search, lots of V8's on gas with HGF and liner problems.
Year 2000 and on cars are reputedly better made.

Cheers guys, diesel most likely anyway seeing as I do enjoy diesels and I drive a sprinter 109bhp for work so doubt it is any slower than that tbh.

But please stop it your making me want it even more now

MPG is a bit less than I get out of my ZTT tbh as I average around mid thirties in that around town and 40 or so on a run so not too bad considering.

Finding one I want at the right price is going to be the hard bit, looking around the £3K mark, most are fairly high mileage on the dervs at least in the region of 100K-160 on some I have seen.

Does the Derv hold out well on those mileages?

I would be looking for evidence of any work done previously like clutch if I end up with a manual, fluid change for autos (i assume the fluid needs to be changed) any other work that should have been completed by those mileages, injectors possibly etc.

Simon

By these sort of mileage I would personally have a fluid and filter change on the autobox and in terms of the engine if not already done then a full service but beyond that I would suggest new glow plugs and having the injectors refurbished. If you've got the cash to spend then a replacement timing chain would be a nicety if it's higher mileage, not necessarily because it is at risk of failing but the diesel engines do tend to be quite sensitive to the chain stretching and just putting the fuel injection pump just out, taking away a little power and making it a bit awkward to start. Like I say though, more a nicety than a necessity. Other than that, check everything like you would with any car with that mileage.

simcor said:

Cheers guys, diesel most likely anyway seeing as I do enjoy diesels and I drive a sprinter 109bhp for work so doubt it is any slower than that tbh.


Simon

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I've got a Sprinter for work and a Rangie diesel automatic for weekends.

It would be an interesting drag race with the Sprinter faster off the line, then it would be anybody's guess.

You here a lot that the deisel is slow but its relative, if you have driven the V8 then yes, my last 4x4 was a Pajero and the Rangie would leave it standing, I know that the Shogun sport is no match as my mate has one. Get the auto as has been said earlier its not got a lot low down but the auto masks it well. The auto is also great for towing, it tows our 23 foot boat with 4 wheel trailer no problem. Ok compared to modern deisels its no match, my dads Terracan is and feels much more powerfull, but I like the old girl and still going at 160K miles (touch wood). You should get an average of around 25mpg.
Davie

simcor said:

Thanks Mike, that's a good start of info, I own an MG ZTT so am well versed in getting my hands dirty with my car.

Mine has a BMW M47 Engine the same as fitted to the Freelander 2, what engine does the P38 have? I have read it's a BMW engine?

Tbh although my car is remapped I really am not that interested in raw power more luxury motoring and the ability to go anywhere, truly that will be occasionally most likely, but last year when it snowed I was completely stuck, could not get my car out the carpark, couldnt get the van in the carpaprk etc, thankfully getting stuck one day on the hill towards my house a very nice guy in a RR helped drag me up the hill to get me off the main road, it took all his 4 wheel drive and me trying to get some traction in my van (difficult as it had traction control and just would not move) to get me up the hill, I was so impressed by how it managed it even when he said he'd try but didnt think he would be able to.

Simon

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make sure it starts from hot without endless cranking, service history,make sure it does not get too hot on the temperature gauge, make sure you get the best you can afford,there are plenty out there,so take your time to go through them,and you will find a good one.

According to the computer I get between 18-21 mpg on gas but I don't take a lot of notice of that.

I have a 90L tank in the spare wheel well and as it can only be filled to 80% that means it can take 72litres of gas and I get approx 260 miles out of that which equates to approx 17mpg and at 63p/litre I'm well happy with that

simcor said:

Cheers guys, diesel most likely anyway seeing as I do enjoy diesels and I drive a sprinter 109bhp for work so doubt it is any slower than that tbh.

But please stop it your making me want it even more now

MPG is a bit less than I get out of my ZTT tbh as I average around mid thirties in that around town and 40 or so on a run so not too bad considering.

Finding one I want at the right price is going to be the hard bit, looking around the £3K mark, most are fairly high mileage on the dervs at least in the region of 100K-160 on some I have seen.

Does the Derv hold out well on those mileages?

I would be looking for evidence of any work done previously like clutch if I end up with a manual, fluid change for autos (i assume the fluid needs to be changed) any other work that should have been completed by those mileages, injectors possibly etc.

Simon

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According to the Bimmer sites the engine is good for 300K miles if well maintained with regular oil changes. You ought to be able to find a Y2K with around 100K miles for your money. Make sure you have enough spare cash to change the airsprings, if they haven't been changed they will need doing

What the opinions on changing the air suspension to standard coil springs as I have seen a few that have been done. I guess it looses some of the comfort of the ride quality?

Cheers
Simon

simcor said:

What the opinions on changing the air suspension to standard coil springs as I have seen a few that have been done. I guess it looses some of the comfort of the ride quality?

Cheers
Simon

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Dont.

Probably should have calrified that, I wouldn't want to do it myself, but I have seen some for sale that have been done, hence why I asked what difference it would make to the ride and handling?

Cheers
Simon