TD6 battery or gearbox

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exxie

New Member
Posts
12
Hi All

First post and it's the old TD6 gearbox chestnut.
My son has an 04 Vogue TD6 and lost drive on a roundabout. High revs brought it to a safe spot and he switched off. It wouldn't restart and he discovered that the battery is completely dead.
There were no signs of any slippage or noises when changing prior to the failure.
Is it just wishful thinking on my part, or could a bad battery cause this to happen? I'm hoping for the best (new battery) but fearing the worst (gbox rebuild).
Car hasn't been recovered home yet so can't check anything out but opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Nothing works with no volts for the ECU's. I'd check the alternator as the problem arose when the engine was running when the battery condition is not important. I suspect the alternator failed and the car kept running until the battery was flat. Also worth checking all the battery and earth connections.
 
Thanks for the quick reply.
I'm hoping to have it recovered tomorrow so will do some voltage checks etc.
Do you thnk checking for a voltage rise when the engine is started is sufficient for an alternator check?

Thanks again
 
exxie said:
Thanks for the quick reply.
I'm hoping to have it recovered tomorrow so will do some voltage checks etc.
Do you thnk checking for a voltage rise when the engine is started is sufficient for an alternator check?

Thanks again
Click to expand...
Assuming the battery is not fecked, you should see 14.2 to 14.5 volts at 2K rpm after a couple of minutes running.
Be careful if you plan to jump start the car, it can be very destructive if not done correctly, these cars are stuffed with oversensitive electronics.:eek:
 
OK - I think I'll remove the battery and charge it before going further.

Thanks again for your input - much appreciated.
 
+1 to Datatek, first thing is to check the alternator...

Also when you reconnect the battery, you will get bells and whistles about Air Suspension Inactive and HDC inactive etc....this is normal, you will need to reset the steering angle sensor by turning full lock left and full lock right then back to centre, this should reset it.
 
Cheers and thanks for the steering tip
Hopefully it's an alternator and not a gearbox required.
Fingers crossed
 
hi guys, sorry to jump in

i have the Petrol 4.4 mine is also starting up only with a full charge in the battery.

battery light is on in dash and when i test across the battery you can see the volts dropping....

so its gotta be Alternator... I used a chap i know and have used in the past to get a complete rebuild of my alternator. I popped it back in yesterday to find the exact same fault..!! NNoooooooo battery light on and battery flat again after a few mins of car running. still no output from alternator.:mad:

these alternators in the 03 BMW 4.4 lump are a complete nightmare they are watercooled... you can only imagine its not a cple of mins job.

i have read on one of the forums that the alternators regulator is controlled by some ECU any body have any ideas...??

cheers
richard
 
deviousdevo said:
hi guys, sorry to jump in

i have the Petrol 4.4 mine is also starting up only with a full charge in the battery.

battery light is on in dash and when i test across the battery you can see the volts dropping....

so its gotta be Alternator... I used a chap i know and have used in the past to get a complete rebuild of my alternator. I popped it back in yesterday to find the exact same fault..!! NNoooooooo battery light on and battery flat again after a few mins of car running. still no output from alternator.:mad:

these alternators in the 03 BMW 4.4 lump are a complete nightmare they are watercooled... you can only imagine its not a cple of mins job.

i have read on one of the forums that the alternators regulator is controlled by some ECU any body have any ideas...??

cheers
richard
Click to expand...

Assuming the earth connection from engine to chassis is good, your best idea is to take it back to the bloke who rebuilt it.
Download RAVE from the How To section and you can check if there is an ECU involved, things are so stupidly over complicated on the L322 that anything is possible however unnecessary it might be.
I suspect, like the P38, it's only the D+ line that goes to the BCU so that an alternator failure can be flagged up, in which case the BCU does not control the alternator.
 
thanks for quick reply
yes earth all good...
ill get the alternator tested again tomorrow

great ill look at the rave i will download it now, thanks
so your saying the the bcu wouldnt switch the regulator in the alternator on or off..??
 
deviousdevo said:
thanks for quick reply
yes earth all good...
ill get the alternator tested again tomorrow

great ill look at the rave i will download it now, thanks
so your saying the the bcu wouldnt switch the regulator in the alternator on or off..??
Click to expand...
That is the case with the P38, I don't know for certain on the L322, it would be incredibly stupid if the BCU does switch the regulator on or off. However, on the P38, the BCU (BECM) provides the voltage to energise the alternator on start up via the D+ line, so a bad connection or fault in the BCU could stop the alternator starting to charge. Once charging has started, the D+ line is not needed, in a normal car this is indicated by the charge light going out.
 
Datatek said:
Assuming the earth connection from engine to chassis is good, your best idea is to take it back to the bloke who rebuilt it.
Download RAVE from the How To section and you can check if there is an ECU involved, things are so stupidly over complicated on the L322 that anything is possible however unnecessary it might be.
I suspect, like the P38, it's only the D+ line that goes to the BCU so that an alternator failure can be flagged up, in which case the BCU does not control the alternator.
Click to expand...

Nothing fancy as far as I can see, standard setup, exciter charge from ignition switch - self exciting as soon as it's running. Check that the exciter voltage is getting past the (often dodgy) ignition switch by checking firstly that passenger compartment (p101) fuse 5 (7.5amp) hasn't blown - if not pull it and check for power with a voltmeter. Alternator failure is notified by the engine management ECU. The only other ECU/alternator interaction is idle control, i.e. idle speed is increases when the alternator output is below load requirements.
 
Hi Again
Got the TD6 recovered to a local yard. Unfortunately there is very limited access so it's difficult to to check in situ.
Anyway, fitted fully charged battery and checked voltage - 13.5 at idle rising to 14.2 with revs, so it seems the alternator is working.
There appears to be forward drive but nothing in reverse, although as I say the access is poor so I can't confirm forward changes etc but certainly no reverse.
Looks like the gearbox unless anyone has other ideas?

All opinions welcomed and TIA
 
:fencing:
exxie said:
Hi Again
Got the TD6 recovered to a local yard. Unfortunately there is very limited access so it's difficult to to check in situ.
Anyway, fitted fully charged battery and checked voltage - 13.5 at idle rising to 14.2 with revs, so it seems the alternator is working.
There appears to be forward drive but nothing in reverse, although as I say the access is poor so I can't confirm forward changes etc but certainly no reverse.
Looks like the gearbox unless anyone has other ideas?

All opinions welcomed and TIA
Click to expand...

Gearbox oil level? You might be lucky, put on diagnostics & clear any faults, it's very suspicious that the battery went flat while driving.
 
Thanks again Datatek
There are no faults displayed!
As a total numpty where these cars are concerned (I play with older 2 seaters) could you explain or provide link as to where filler/level plugs are on these beasts please?

Cheers
 
Cheers Saint.V8

Have just read your How To - excellent stuff.
Doesn't look the most pleasant of jobs but hey ho - IF it turns out to be oil rather than a rebuild it will be well worth it.

Thanks
 
thanks for the input stuck again steve

i have removed the alternator and returned to the repair man for him to inspect again. i will hopefully know his findings in the morning

as for the fuses i have indeed gone over every single one thinking it could or hoping it was something simple (yeah Right) so no unfortunately fuses are all good
i havnt checked the voltage from the fuse, ill check that tomorrow i take it im looking for 12 v

thanks again guys
 
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