td5 needing multiple purges after new fuel filter/housing.

potus · Jan 22, 2018

defendermikey said:
I bought a new filter head about 2 years ago when i first noticed the housing decaying a bit. Never got round to fitting it. It came with 4 new brass unions. That is how I presented it to the garage who are happy for me to supply parts. I get what you are saying - there is a part on one of the valves that should have been transferred over/replaced from the old housing, namely the air bleed part. I'd better ask them! Thanks

One of the 4 fittings should house an air bleed valve (the driver side rear fitting), its the vent return to the tank

Frenchdame · Jan 22, 2018

neilly said:
Does sound like pump to me.....a pressure check will soon decide it.

My new filter head on my D2 TD5 came with the brass unions including the air bleed and non return valves prefitted.

Cheers

Took mine down to the local Indy today and he said without looking that it air getting in and would be the injector seals. I have to wait until Wednesday as he's busy.

neilly · Jan 22, 2018

Frenchdame said:
Took mine down to the local Indy today and he said without looking that it air getting in and would be the injector seals. I have to wait until Wednesday as he's busy.

What you were saying about yours, it does not surprise me.

Cheers

Frenchdame · Jan 22, 2018

I did a start on it this morning, concerned that it wouldn't fire - ignition on for thirty seconds and pump stops running, slowly press throttle five times, releasing, then ignition on and turned and fired and kicked and stopped but fired up on second turn of ignition with a cylinder missing I think for three or four seconds, then cleared and got me to the indy without a care in the world.

neilly · Jan 22, 2018

Frenchdame said:
I did a start on it this morning, concerned that it wouldn't fire - ignition on for thirty seconds and pump stops running, slowly press throttle five times, releasing, then ignition on and turned and fired and kicked and stopped but fired up with a cylinder missing I think for three or four seconds, then cleared and got me to the indy without a care in the world.

OK, is that some specific starting scheme you have been told to do?

Cheers

Frenchdame · Jan 22, 2018

neilly said:
OK, is that some specific starting scheme you have been told to do?

Cheers

Yep - I read it on the lz elsewhere I think, discussion was partly about purging, and I thought I would try it. But it worked better than anything I have tried in the last week since the problem developed.

neilly · Jan 22, 2018

Frenchdame said:
Yep - I read it on the lz elsewhere I think, discussion was partly about purging, and I thought I would try it. But it worked better than anything I have tried in the last week since the problem developed.

Well the way you have described it is not the purging cycle, did the Engine Management light come on?

Cheers

potus · Jan 22, 2018

The priming sequence which worked for me was ignition on, whilst the yellow engine management light is on, press throttle 5 times, EML will flash, leave the car to do its purges cycle, can take a good 10 mins or so..... when the EMl stops flashing, purge complete.

neilly · Jan 22, 2018

potus said:
The priming sequence which worked for me was ignition on, whilst the yellow engine management light is on, press throttle 5 times, EML will flash, leave the car to do its purges cycle, can take a good 10 mins or so..... when the EMl stops flashing, purge complete.

That is the correct sequence...

Cheers

discomania · Jan 22, 2018

defendermikey said:
I bought a new filter head about 2 years ago when i first noticed the housing decaying a bit. Never got round to fitting it. It came with 4 new brass unions. That is how I presented it to the garage who are happy for me to supply parts. I get what you are saying - there is a part on one of the valves that should have been transferred over/replaced from the old housing, namely the air bleed part. I'd better ask them! Thanks

I see what you are saying, so it may be it was 4 plain brass barbs.

I would go along these lines first, it is the most simple explanation and cheaper in parts if needed.

You could go grab a spanner and have a look for the bits - you don't even need to split the pipes from the barbs - also check the pipes for any damage, these pipe unions can be gummed up with crud and if forced the seal could have been compromised. If it is this and you need bits it will cost you a few pounds whereas a pump is a more costly job which you would resent doing if you had not checked the simple stuff. Like the time I had a piece of silicone in my fuel pickup and I decided it had to be the pump... Luckily a friend undid the union on top of the fuel tank and found the blob of silicone (from sealing the stand pipe to the tank) right at the top partially blocking the pipe. In the end 10 minutes of spannering and all was well! If I had bought and fitted a new pump then found this the language would have been colourful!

The whole fuel system can be under suspicion but my lead suspect would be the latest things that have been touched.

Frenchdame · Jan 22, 2018

I can't recall the EML being on or off but I would have been unlikely to do much if the lights were on

neilly · Jan 22, 2018

Frenchdame said:
I can't recall the EML being on or off but I would have been unlikely to do much if the lights were on

I do not think you did the purge procedure.

Cheers

Frenchdame · Jan 22, 2018

I did wonder as I thought the purge should take much longer.

defendermikey · Jan 22, 2018

discomania said:
I see what you are saying, so it may be it was 4 plain brass barbs.

I would go along these lines first, it is the most simple explanation and cheaper in parts if needed.

You could go grab a spanner and have a look for the bits - you don't even need to split the pipes from the barbs - also check the pipes for any damage, these pipe unions can be gummed up with crud and if forced the seal could have been compromised. If it is this and you need bits it will cost you a few pounds whereas a pump is a more costly job which you would resent doing if you had not checked the simple stuff. Like the time I had a piece of silicone in my fuel pickup and I decided it had to be the pump... Luckily a friend undid the union on top of the fuel tank and found the blob of silicone (from sealing the stand pipe to the tank) right at the top partially blocking the pipe. In the end 10 minutes of spannering and all was well! If I had bought and fitted a new pump then found this the language would have been colourful!

The whole fuel system can be under suspicion but my lead suspect would be the latest things that have been touched.

Thanks very much again!

Should the 4 brass barbs all look the same, except for the one that requires the valve in it? I'm positive that all 4 of them were just 'straight through', but can't remember for sure.
It's possible that it has been fitted (i'd have attempted it myself but stumps of the bolts were seized) without the gauze/bleed valve being swapped over from the old assembly. The chap in the diagnostic centre is doing a pressure test tomorrow as well as inspecting the unions to check for valve. Would not fitting the bleed valve cause such erratic performance in your view?

erratic being: flat spot at 1500-1800 RPM, noisier than usual pump, cutting out after starting when left for a few hours and needing purged to get it going again.

nobber · Jan 22, 2018

defendermikey said:
The fuel pressure regulator IS the problem?
Or replacing it IS the problem?

Ta.

No mate, you diagnosing your own motor then telling a mechanic how to fix it, thats the problem. Sorry to be blunt but you may as well have said, here, have some cash for some work that doesnt need doing, if this doesnt work I will pay you some more for some more work that probably wont fix it. Hes hardly gonna say no and he certianly aint gonna tell you whats wrong with it.

defendermikey · Jan 22, 2018

nobber said:
No mate, you diagnosing your own motor then telling a mechanic how to fix it, thats the problem. Sorry to be blunt but you may as well have said, here, have some cash for some work that doesnt need doing, if this doesnt work I will pay you some more for some more work that probably wont fix it. Hes hardly gonna say no and he certianly aint gonna tell you whats wrong with it.

no worries.
Hence the reason I took it to diagnostic centre with a LR mechanic for a bit more in depth look at.
The reason I got the FPR changed was it was making a lot of noise and I've very possibly got air in the system. After researching on here it seems the FPR can leak, causing the symptoms I'm getting. Plenty folks on here will change things that might not need done simply to rule them out. Cheers.

nobber · Jan 22, 2018

defendermikey said:
no worries.
Hence the reason I took it to diagnostic centre with a LR mechanic for a bit more in depth look at.
The reason I got the FPR changed was it was making a lot of noise and I've very possibly got air in the system. After researching on here it seems the FPR can leak, causing the symptoms I'm getting. Plenty folks on here will change things that might not need done simply to rule them out. Cheers.

When you pay a garage to fix somethink it shouldnt come back broke, but these things happen, the problem arises when too many chefs stick their oar in and nobody knows who did what. Your original problem looks like the first garage didnt do the job right, they gave it back to you leaking fuel, now your pockets are getting deeper and you dont even know which way is up.

defendermikey · Jan 22, 2018

nobber said:
When you pay a garage to fix somethink it shouldnt come back broke, but these things happen, the problem arises when too many chefs stick their oar in and nobody knows who did what. Your original problem looks like the first garage didnt do the job right, they gave it back to you leaking fuel, now your pockets are getting deeper and you dont even know which way is up.

Cheers.
Garage never gave it back to me leaking fuel, sorry if I gave that impression.
It needed to get fuel filter housing replaced as it WAS leaking and I gave them the one that I had as it was in for MOT that day anyways (failed on fuel leak, passed later after housing swapped plus some new brake line).
I take responsibility for giving them the part which might not have the air bleed valve fitted - to be confirmed when I get it back tomorrow.
In your view would a housing with no air bleed valve fitted cause the flat spots/erratic performance I'm getting?
Ta.

nobber · Jan 22, 2018

defendermikey said:
Cheers.
Garage never gave it back to me leaking fuel, sorry if I gave that impression.
It needed to get fuel filter housing replaced as it WAS leaking and I gave them the one that I had as it was in for MOT that day anyways (failed on fuel leak, passed later after housing swapped plus some new brake line).
I take responsibility for giving them the part which might not have the air bleed valve fitted - to be confirmed when I get it back tomorrow.
In your view would a housing with no air bleed valve fitted cause the flat spots/erratic performance I'm getting?
Ta.

You think there might be air in the fuel system?

defendermikey · Jan 22, 2018

nobber said:
You think there might be air in the fuel system?

fair point.

td5 needing multiple purges after new fuel filter/housing.

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