TD5 disco starting

Hi all,

I know this topic has been done to death and for that I apologies in advance.

I have a 2003 TD5 disco and 12 weeks ago it was very lumpy to start and then it let me down completely and I had to be recovered.

Following the below work the
Symptom is the car beats the key when starting but is as lumpy as anything for 5 sec or so and sometimes it dies.

To date I have done the following.

Changed fuel regulator as it was leaking
Changed fuel filter housing
Changed fuel pump
Done injector seals and orings (twice)
New injector harness
New crank shaft sensor and shim
New starter motor
New temp sensor
New air flow meter
4 new glow plugs ( fully working system)
All earth's been cleaned and checked
Engine harness checked and no faults
ECU sent off for testing (no faults found)
No faults being logged when checked with autologic.

Fuel system is silent as you like. Am confident it is not air in fuel issue.

When I have done the above work on the fuel system I have had to tow the car up the road to get it to fire and it has been a royal pain on the arse everytime.

It only mucks about when the out side temp is below 10 Deg. All other times it is spot on fires and runs even from the off.

When running it is strong and a pleasure to drive with no messing about. I have had a few TD5s and this is def one of the better ones.

Am really running out of ideas and am after a few more things which to try.
Really don't want to push it back into everyday use as I can't trust it at the moment.

Any help or pointers would be gratefully received.

Thanks

How did you check if the glow plug system is actually working though?

Checked there was a 12v output through the linked fuse.

Checked for 12v at the input and output side of the relay.

Bridged the relay and checked voltage at the end of all the glowplug connectors.

Then used a inline 21w bulb on all glow plugs and when the ignition was on the bulb was uliminated when the earth was switched by the ECU. The light stayed on whilst the engine was running for a good few mins.

All glow plugs where tested before fitting and are good Bosch brand plugs.

Then i'm affraid it looks very like a crack in the head

sierrafery said:

Then i'm affraid it looks very like a crack in the head

Click to expand...

Thanks.... I am starting to think this may be the case....

Just one question... why would it not have any problems when the ambient temperature is above 10deg?

I would have thought that if it was a cracked head it would not be temp dependant and I would also expect to have. Oil, water consumption

Cylinder imbalances which are above +/- 1 (never seen them this good before)

Thanks anyway

Good point, If you have tester record a live data log from cold start, seing your list of repairs you missed the fuel temp sensor which can give difficult cold start symptoms

sierrafery said:

Good point, If you have tester record a live data log from cold start, seing your list of repairs you missed the fuel temp sensor which can give difficult cold start symptoms

Click to expand...

Thanks. I have checked the fuel temp sensor and it is reporting out okay... i did think I was eater temp failure as the ECU would use the fuel temp to calculate fueling in the event of water temp sensor failure.

The other ones I have checked are ambient air and inlet manifold temp sensor.
Both seam to be functioning.

The only thing I have not done is changed the Battery? I thought TD5s were not that fussy on voltage and have always presumed that as the engine turns over really well and coughs into life instantly that the battery was okay?

Check your cranking voltage.
Does she start ok when you try jump starting it?
The CPS is one of the only things that will kill the engine dead, you said your crank sensor had a shim, could try removing it, mine didnt have one.
Have you checked for leaks around the injectors? Cam cover off, ignition on, dont start engine, have a good look using a torch.
Even when my head had cracked it ran fine.
Before you start taking the head off, get your injectors tested (properly) Merlin Diesels did mine, £30 each.
Mark

No it is a real pain to bump start... took me 7 miles on a rope to get it to cough after I did the fuel pressure reg change.

The old CPS looked like the tip had been damaged when removed and was shorter in length when compared to the new one.
I did not have a shim installed originally but based on the fact the new sensor was a bit longer I thought it wise to fit the shim.

I have checked for leaks with the ignition on and the cam cover off. There was no hissing or visible leaks. I am not convinced it is fuel / air related... the fuel system is silent and no funny air related noises.

One thing I have spotted over the weekend is that if I hold the throttle fully down when starting it fires instantly and clears to a smooth ideal within a few seconds. As I have said once running it is faultless and it only displays this behavior when the temp is below 10deg.

Could this be a injector fault or am I looking at a head issue?

Regards

Bryan

Holding the throttle down when starting tells the Ecu to inject extra fuel as it's the procedure for starting after running out.
I'd be looking at the pump and injector seals again., did you use genuine parts or cheapo ones?

Okay thanks,.

I used genuine seals both time and it was a genuine pump.

One thing that worries me is that the Copper seals are extremely tight on the injectors. Like could not get the old ones off and the new ones had to be pressed on with some force. Is this normal?

When I did mine they went on fairly easy just with hand pressure.
I would imagine if there that difficult that the nozzles on the injectors could be gummed up. The injector seats need to be spotlessly clean for the washers to seal properly

I read somewhere that the starter solenoid and contacts can get a bit jittery and generate voltage noise which upsets the ECU, especial if the contacts are burned but if you have changed the starter then I presume the solenoid is new.
Odd that it happens at low temperature kind of draws you to the heater plugs, but looks like you felt that way too.
Re the injectors I carefully cleaned mine with a brass brush when I pulled them off, concentrating on the part where the new washer seats but you need to take great care not to go near the very tip of the injector where you might cause some damage

Sorry by jump start, I meant using jump leads and a 2nd battery, a weak battery will still turn the engine over but it may not start.
But as its starting when you floor the gas, its sound like fueling issues.
If you are 100% happy with the seals, I would recommend getting your injectors tested, even if they come back as ok its good to know they are ok.
I wouldn't trust a garage to do it, it seems garages love telling people "na mate its your injectors whats had it!" so, again, I would recommend a specialist.
Also maybe be worth checking your ECU, there was a thread on here last year with similar issues, turned out the ECU had failed, they are very cheap 2nd hand. But again, the fact that it starts and runs seems to eliminate that.
Mark

bryan bush said:

Okay thanks,.

I used genuine seals both time and it was a genuine pump.

One thing that worries me is that the Copper seals are extremely tight on the injectors. Like could not get the old ones off and the new ones had to be pressed on with some force. Is this normal?

Click to expand...

This is normal, I think it's best to lave about 1mm gap between the top of the nozzle/injector body and the washer otherwise you can deform the washer and won't get a good seal, gently place the injector in the head and use the injector clamp to draw the injector into the head with alternate tightening of the bolts. This then causes the flange of the injector seat to press the washer correctly (and flatly!) onto the injector cutting ring...

My money would still be on air in the system... you can put some clear plastic pipe inline on the HP & LP lines from the FPR with a big loop in to check for air bubbles - I saw a video on youtube showing this on another forum earlier... I'll post the link if I can find it again

Thanks for all the feedback and tips.

My ECU has just come back from being tested with no faults found.

I am going to do the injector seals again I think.

The first time the Cooper washers where deformed which is why I did it again.

I have head that the blacktop injectors can be a very tight fit on the seals.

I have also tried jump starting it from a slave battery but it made no difference. The engine fires straight of the key and just takes time to settle down and come up on all 5 cylinders.

Now having a very similar problem so I hope you solve it
Car started faultlessly first turn of the key every time hot or cold for over a year that I have had it.
Recently started having problems starting when cold, the colder the harder it is and it misfires for a couple of seconds and you get Blue/White smoke for a couple of seconds too.
Just had the glow plugs changed and now it does it hot or cold and I can only start it by pushing the throttle pedal down a bit.
Bloody frustrating as before it went into a garage to have the big top water hose and the fuel pipes from the pump to the filter changed it was fine.
Probably just a coincidence.
The only other thing I have noticed is the fuel filter they fitted when they did the pipes is not an OEM one - could that be the problem?
Stuck a bottle of injector cleaner in it at the weekend but no change.
Any help as always appreciated.
Y

Bryan and Yorkie. When your engine is running does it idle ok?
The flag for my injector seals was when I got stuck in traffic for 1 hour, after about 15-20 mins it started missing, then eventually stalled.
Re-started after a full purge, kept running if the revs were over 2000!
Starting had also become an issue.
All back to normal when I changed the seals.
BTW, I wouldnt recommend injector cleaner, just my opinion though.
My copper new washers were pretty loose, did you torque your injector clamp bolts down correctly?
Mark

Thanks for the reply, mine idles fine hot or cold once over the initial misfire.
Almost seems like not getting enough fuel until I press the throttle.
I am still suspicious that something has happened as a result of one of the two things done above.
Would a non oem fuel filter cause an issue?
Cheers
Y