TD4 turns over but will not run after work done

:behindsofa:
UPDATE

Removed the top covers etc. this morning as I wanted to check the connectors were all in the correct place.Yes, all was correct. I had removed the following connectors when I stripped it down last week:
Synergy Pierburg MAF (The connection to the original Bosch MAF was untouched and is secure)
CAMSHAFT position sensor (Front l.h. side of Camshaft cover)
MAP sensor (Front l.h. end, underside of inlet manifold)
Synergy Fuel pressure sensor (End of fuel rail)
**No other sensors had been disconnected or touched.

Disconnected and removed fuel connections from fuel rail to all 4 injectors, the inlet nipple on all injectors was full of fuel. I then started to disconnect the leak off pipes from the top of the injectors, I did No.4 first and when the fitting was removed the top of the fitting on the injector was full to the brim with fuel. When the remaining leak off connectors were removed, I couldn't see any fuel present.
The injectors were removed but when No.4 was out, there was a semi hard carbon like build up on the copper seating washer. Last week I cleaned them all up on the outside taking care not to go near the tip of the injectors. The deposit could only of come from the seating in the cylinder head where the copper sealing washer sits. I am going to see if I can try and clear the ****e out, obviously this seating face is quite a long way down.
The deposit was not hard like carbon and came off the copper washer quite easily with a brass wire brush.
Now the question...If the injector was not sealing fully due to the crud on the cylinder head sealing face-could this be the reason for the non starting ???
In any case I am going to send the injectors off to the place in Birmingham which I mentioned earlier to get them checked out.
Thanks again for all your input guys-this is what Landyzone and it's members is all about.
raise:

a poorly sealing injector will not prevent your engine from starting, and it is very unlikely you would be able to fit the injectors incorrectly not much room for any errors there, if they incorrectly clamped air/gas would be forced out, you would hear this .

ok try this , to see if your injectors are actually firing, remove them and the short connectoing pipes reverse them and connect the injectors so they are facing towards the front, get some jars or i used small plastic drinks bottles and slip a bottle over each injector, not you can try cranking the engine and you should see each injector firing and creating a mist in each container,
i will try to find you a video that i took when i did this if it helps

john t said:

a poorly sealing injector will not prevent your engine from starting, and it is very unlikely you would be able to fit the injectors incorrectly not much room for any errors there, if they incorrectly clamped air/gas would be forced out, you would hear this .

ok try this , to see if your injectors are actually firing, remove them and the short connectoing pipes reverse them and connect the injectors so they are facing towards the front, get some jars or i used small plastic drinks bottles and slip a bottle over each injector, not you can try cranking the engine and you should see each injector firing and creating a mist in each container,
i will try to find you a video that i took when i did this if it helps

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:behindsofa:
Thanks for that info.
I took the injectors out yesterday and they were sent to GAP Injectors in Birmingham for a full computerised function test and report...they should have them tomorrow. I have also bought an injector seat recutting tool to clean the crud from the sealing faces in the cylinder head. If one or more of the injectors is faulty GAP will repair them.
At least if that side of things is proven to be o.k, and the problem still exists, I can isolate that part of the equation.
If I am lucky I will get the injectors back Wednesday at the earliest or Friday at the latest.
I didn't hear any "Blowing" noises whilst cranking and the engine was spinning over at the same speed as it always has.

Sounds daft but have you checked to see the plugs are getting hot/hot enough?

Irishrover i have posted some photos on a new thread under td4 injector testing, i wasnt able to post a video hope it helps,
another thought if your cam sensor is defective or the wiring your engine wont start

have you tried easy start ?

the way I got crap out of the holes for the injectors was to use a hoover just stick the pipe down and switch on and you must used new copper washers fail to do this and you will have diesel coming out and if you do not see it over time it will go rock hard ,then you will have to dig it out. you did not get the wires to the injectors mixed up I know it is hard to do but just check , good luck and it is a pity I do not live near to you or I would come round and look at it for you ,but I can not do nothing at the moment with my bad hands, but like you when I had my first diesel I did not know much about them but after 12 years I have learnt a lot, especially from here, good old landyzone

john t said:

Irishrover i have posted some photos on a new thread under td4 injector testing, i wasnt able to post a video hope it helps,
another thought if your cam sensor is defective or the wiring your engine wont start

have you tried easy start ?

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:behindsofa:
Morning Guys......Couldn't do much yesterday as I had to take the wife to Abergele for an eye operation.
Thanks for taking the time to post the video. Haven't had chance to look at it yet.
The wiring and connector to the Camshaft sensor looks fine. The inside of the Camshaft cover looked fine when I took it off to clean before replacing the gasket and refitting it.It was cleaned with White Spirit, the way I have cleaned bits & pieces for donkeys years....applied with a paint brush and dried with rags.

thequeenscheese said:

Sounds daft but have you checked to see the plugs are getting hot/hot enough?

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No, I haven't checked them physically. No wiring/connectors were disconnected at the front, rear or sides of the engine other than the ones I listed in my previous post.



Thanks for the thought TW...appreciated
Lovely sunny start to the day here
I have decided that whilst I am waiting for the seat tool and injectors to come, that I am going to remove the Camshaft cover again and recheck the work I did when I stripped everything down. The rear of the camshaft cover (Where the air filter sits) reduces the visibility to the rear of the engine. I will have a really good look around
I have had a thought :crazy:, If when everything is refitted and it doesn't start, I will refit the original MAF Bosch sensor, disconnect the Synergy so that the original connectors are fitted directly to their sensors. From memory, there is only the MAF and Fuel sensors involved....and try it again.
Must try and take some photo's as I go along

yes refit the original, maf, if its not compatible again the engine wont start , i think it should run with it disconnected,

i have posted video s on youtube under , td4 injector testing , and td4 injector testing -2
if you carry out this test you will be 100% sure the injectors are firing, and there is not a lot to stop it running when resembled

did you find the map sensor ?

Hi John....yes the MAP sensor was located on the underside of the inlet manifold at the front l.h. corner (Looking into the engine from the front).In close proximity to the Camshaft sensor.

John, try a blast of easystart and see if it runs. On common rail, as already said, one leaking injector can lower rail pressure and prevent starting. Don't know on that engine, but most common rail engines have a rail pressure test point.

Irishrover - sorry, I completely forgot that I'd asked if you wanted a picture, but I see you found the button anyway. Sorry fella.

Irishrover, have a look at these videos. They might help shed light on what is supposed to be going on.

1. How a Common Rail Diesel Injector Works and Common Failure Points - Engineered Diesel - YouTube
2. Diesel Common Rail Injection Facts 1 - YouTube (this one is a bit weird)
3. common rail diesel injection video - YouTube

sijwhite said:

Irishrover - sorry, I completely forgot that I'd asked if you wanted a picture, but I see you found the button anyway. Sorry fella.

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:behindsofa:

Not a problem Bud.....It was hidden where I least expected to see it
As you can see, this post has turned into a saga....a costly one at that

:behindsofa:
UPDATE
Got the injectors back this morning. Refitted the Camshaft cover and inlet manifold after fitting the injectors...New seals on injectors and new gaskets on C am cover & inlet manifold.
Connected everything back up and cranked it over....It started 2nd time and idles. Let it run for a while in order to check for coolant leaks and to let the oil level settle (Did an oil/filter change).
It seems to me that the engine is running "Lumpy"-it seems to be vibrating a bit more on tickover and feels like there is a flat spot when I press the accelerator at idle. The Synergy is set, where it has always been at no.5 (Push button switch at ECO). When I change the pushbutton switch to "Power" there seems to be a slight improvement.
I have got data report sheets for each of the injectors and the variation between injectors after servicing is minimal-they are all shown as "Pass" on the print outs and within original spec.
Could it be that the EMS has still got the original settings stored and requires a re-learn of the adaptive parameters ?
Just like to say thanks to everyone who has posted on this topic...your input has been most helpful :clap2::clap2:

YET ANOTHER UPDATE
Spoke to the people who did the injectors this morning regarding the "Lumpy" idle.
They said this was normal and things would settle down after about 100 miles.
Did a short run of about 4 miles, the first run since yesterday and although the lumpiness and flat spot was there when we set out, it did seem to improve.
We later decided to take a trip over to Portmadog about 35 miles away, got in the car, it started fine, not as lumpy as it was and set off. There is a hill out of the village and the car took it as well as it always has done. The car seemed to be getting back to it's old self.
About 4 miles up the road it then just died, the EML came on and stayed on. Engine would spin over but no way would it start. I could smell like rotten eggs from the exhaust.
Checked the security of the connectors-MAF,MAP & Fuel rail. all were secure. Removed the MAF connector and it still wouldn't start.
I had no tools with me so couldn't remove any covers. Got a friend to come out and tow me to the nearest garage where they are going to run diagnostics, but can't do it until tomorrow.
Really getting pi**ed of with this now !!!
:frusty::flame2::flame2:

on my old one when it did that it was the in tank fuel pump

teddywood1 said:

on my old one when it did that it was the in tank fuel pump

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:tea:
Thanks for that Bud-appreciated.
Beside getting me down hassle wise, it's also having quite an impact on the bank balance When will it stop I ask myself.

Is the pump you refer to, the one, in my case located behind the rear r.h. wheel arch ? When I switch the ignition on I can hear it running. About 2 months ago I replaced the fuel filter which is sat next to it.

I'll hopefully have the results of the diagnostics late tomorrow morning.
As usual these things always come to light on a Friday when, if parts have to be ordered they don't come until Tuesday or Wednesday because nobody works over the weekend :violent:

teddywood1 said:

on my old one when it did that it was the in tank fuel pump

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Mine would sometimes for no reason not fire up either.....but giving the fuel pump near the battery a whack, sorted it out.....happened about 3 times, must have been sticking?......been ok for over 2 years now.

2nd that fuel pump issue

ryan168 said:

Morning bud i had a similar problem check the low pressure pump in the tank is working ok all the best Ryan

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:tea: