TD4 turns over but will not run after work done

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DPD have picked the injectors up for shipping back to the place that refurbed them. Hopefully they will be back on Friday.
I have now refitted the original Bosch MAF and also refitted the original Fuel rail sensor connector so the Synergy is now out of the equation and everything (Apart from the EGR bypass) is now back to original.
This problem, after doing a relatively simple job has really turned me off diesels big time. When I was looking for a Freelander I wanted a V6 but was "Guided" to buy the TD4 instead. At least I know my way round petrol burners and their shortcomings !!

Camshaft sensor?
The camshaft sensor position is predetermined by the Camshaft cover and is non adjustable. Hard to see that the sensor would fail because the cover had been removed and refitted. :confused:
 
Irishrover said:
DPD have picked the injectors up for shipping back to the place that refurbed them. Hopefully they will be back on Friday.
I have now refitted the original Bosch MAF and also refitted the original Fuel rail sensor connector so the Synergy is now out of the equation and everything (Apart from the EGR bypass) is now back to original.
This problem, after doing a relatively simple job has really turned me off diesels big time. When I was looking for a Freelander I wanted a V6 but was "Guided" to buy the TD4 instead. At least I know my way round petrol burners and their shortcomings !!

Camshaft sensor?
The camshaft sensor position is predetermined by the Camshaft cover and is non adjustable. Hard to see that the sensor would fail because the cover had been removed and refitted. :confused:
Click to expand...

Smoke on a diesel = excess fuel, missfire suggests one or more cylinders has a leaky injector. Fuel presure on a common rail diesel is incredibly high. Loss of pressure will cause problems too.
I'm not sure I would have changed the MAF and wiring etc until the injectors have been proved OK.
 
Irishrover said:
DPD have picked the injectors up for shipping back to the place that refurbed them. Hopefully they will be back on Friday.
I have now refitted the original Bosch MAF and also refitted the original Fuel rail sensor connector so the Synergy is now out of the equation and everything (Apart from the EGR bypass) is now back to original.
This problem, after doing a relatively simple job has really turned me off diesels big time. When I was looking for a Freelander I wanted a V6 but was "Guided" to buy the TD4 instead. At least I know my way round petrol burners and their shortcomings !!

Camshaft sensor?
The camshaft sensor position is predetermined by the Camshaft cover and is non adjustable. Hard to see that the sensor would fail because the cover had been removed and refitted. :confused:[/quote well in the old days of the 50s 60s and even 70s you could bet one thing with a petrol if it did not start is either points or spark plugs or carb and as most fuel pumps were done by the engine except for the minis which had that dreaded one by the petrol tank but even that could be seen to ,now it is all plug and play a friend of mine who is or should I say was a mechanic. had enough of it all and emigrated to do something else in life as he was fed up of not being a mechanic any more but a fitter.
Click to expand...
 
Having spent a life time with diesels the first and most important thing if you have fuel at the top end and have not disturbed the timing, is cranking speed, when your battery is fully charged, double up with another battery and jump leads and see if that works.
 
Buccaneer said:
Having spent a life time with diesels the first and most important thing if you have fuel at the top end and have not disturbed the timing, is cranking speed, when your battery is fully charged, double up with another battery and jump leads and see if that works.
Click to expand...
That would not affect the way it runs once started.
 
:behindsofa:
Morning everyone.....Thanks for the input.
Just tracked the injectors and they arrived in B'ham this morning for checking.
Datatek has put some valid comments forward and browsing the web last night I came accross an article written by Roverron relating to TD4 starting problems and his comments seem to point towards a leaking injector-however I will reserve judgement until I put every thing back.
Thinking of the Camshaft sensor, not the Crank sensor, which was not touched during the stripdown, is it possible that replacing the camshaft cover gasket has caused the sensor to be to far away from the relevant cam lobe-increasing the air gap ? A genuine LR rubber/plastic gasket was fitted which sits inside a groove on the cover. The gasket is further held in place by steel tubular bushes fitted to the cover bolts so it's impossible for the gasket to become dislodged from the cover. I could remove the cover, turn the engine over by hand so that the lobe is vertical, refit the cover and check the distance from the tip of the lobe to the top of the sensor location on the cover. The distance from the seating face to the tip of the sensor could be measured thus giving me the air gap of the sensor.
Can anyone well versed with Common Rail diesel systems explain the relevance of the Camshaft sensor and it's relativity to the problems I have.
I know this topic seems endless but hopefully all of the good, helpful advice and input will be of use to some other poor sod in the future.
Thanks fellas for your support :):):tea:
 
I look forward to your blog every day !. and yes it could be the camshaft sensor it just senses where the camshaft is of course these modern engines can be a pain give me back the time when in winter on the lorries you used to have a shovel with a fire in it to get the diesel to un freeze if you had for gotten to put some petrol in with it the day before to stop it freezing
 
explain the relevance of the Camshaft sensor and it's relativity to the problems I have.
Click to expand...

not read the whole thread ..

but ..

re: the cam sensor .. it's signal used by the ecu for starting the engine only
( not used once the engine is running )
a.f.a.i.k. it tells the ecu the state ( open -closed ) of the valves via the camshaft position
( something like that :)
 
Last edited:
teddywood1 said:
I look forward to your blog every day !. and yes it could be the camshaft sensor it just senses where the camshaft is of course these modern engines can be a pain give me back the time when in winter on the lorries you used to have a shovel with a fire in it to get the diesel to un freeze if you had for gotten to put some petrol in with it the day before to stop it freezing
Click to expand...
:welcome:
I can remember driving up the A1 in the sixties one winter and seeing trucks parked on the side of the road with small fires under the diesel tanks :eek:

hd3 said:
not read the whole thread ..

but ..

re: the cam sensor .. it's signal used by the ecu for starting the engine only
( not used once the engine is running )

So it would not affect the way the engine runs when once it has started-in my case, the rough running and loads of smoke out of the back ?

a.f.a.i.k. it tells the ecu the state ( open -closed ) of the valves via the camshaft position
( something like that :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for that...Lets see what tomorrow brings-weather permitting !!
:)
 
hd3 said:
not read the whole thread ..

but ..

re: the cam sensor .. it's signal used by the ecu for starting the engine only
( not used once the engine is running )
a.f.a.i.k. it tells the ecu the state ( open -closed ) of the valves via the camshaft position
( something like that :)
Click to expand...

I belive tells the ecu when to fire the right injector...if its not working correctly you will get missfires, poor running etc.....unless some can tell me otherwise?:(
 
attached pic from the m47r/td4 .pdf
( which was online for free .. but now costs to download )
 

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If its totally dead ie not giving out any signal then I would also presume nothing would happen as how would the ecu know when to fire the injectors?

But if its giving out spurious and intermittent pulses, then the ecu would be fiering the injectors at wrong times...

I belive the sensor is a hall effect type just like your abs sensors.....so if the signals weak it could play havoc with the ecu?

Maybe this can be checked on diagnostics? I don't know on freelanders?

Could be injectors too, if there not calibrated to eject the same amount of fuel, this could cause problems as one cylinder or more will be getting a different amount of fuel to the others.....that's why some need coding to compensate for variations in fuel output....
 
Managed to get a brand new boxed, old stock,TD4, BMW Camshaft sensor for £30 which arrived this morning. I am dubious whether this will help but will keep an open mind. Hopefully the injectors will be here later. Weather here is a bit breezy but sunny-how long for is anyones guess ???? :rolleyes:
Off for a bit of shopping with Er Indoors....hopefully will do a bit more when we get back if the injectors are here.:)
 
Not wanting to alarm you further but a faulty crankshaft sensor can cause similar problems:eek:

I find it hard to belive that these sensors can't be logged with diagnostics, that way you can see for your self that its working, instead of just swapping parts out....

I'm don't know how indepth landrover diagnostics go.....coming for a VW background there is a great diagnostic package called vag-com and its worth its weight in gold, you can view all sensors operations etc.

I stopped taking my vehicles to garages when they kept saying no faults found on diags? Obviously they had the wrong diags in vw's case. as what ever they were using wasn't picking up logged faults.

Which brings me onto landrover diags, I really wanted the testbook T4 diags, but this is like rocking horse **** to get hold off with a cable, So I'm thinking of the lynx diagnostic software which brit part sell, and only because it is pc based and thus may have more options to test sensors indepth?:confused:

You mentioned rovacom, how indepth does this software go?

Sorry to go of topic and hope all comes good for you:thumbup:
 
jedi said:
Not wanting to alarm you further but a faulty crankshaft sensor can cause similar problems:eek:

I find it hard to belive that these sensors can't be logged with diagnostics, that way you can see for your self that its working, instead of just swapping parts out....

I'm don't know how indepth landrover diagnostics go.....coming for a VW background there is a great diagnostic package called vag-com and its worth its weight in gold, you can view all sensors operations etc.

I stopped taking my vehicles to garages when they kept saying no faults found on diags? Obviously they had the wrong diags in vw's case. as what ever they were using wasn't picking up logged faults.

Which brings me onto landrover diags, I really wanted the testbook T4 diags, but this is like rocking horse **** to get hold off with a cable, So I'm thinking of the lynx diagnostic software which brit part sell, and only because it is pc based and thus may have more options to test sensors indepth?:confused:

You mentioned rovacom, how indepth does this software go?

Sorry to go of topic and hope all comes good for you:thumbup:
Click to expand...

www.blackbox-solutions.com Faultmate MSV is the dogs for LR vehicles:)
 
No sign of the injectors:( doubt very much they will be here now. Tried ringing them and missed them-they finish at 4.00 p.m. on Fridays :eek:

Regarding the sensors etc., It's fine working in a main stealer, if a part is suspect, nip into the stores, get a new one, open the box carefully and try it-if it's not a fix, carefully put it back in the box and place back on the shelf......repeat this process until a cure is found !!! I feel that any sensor such as the Camshaft and Crank position sensors do not pack up at the same time-too much of a coincidence.
I have an oscilloscope here and will if needs be run a scan on the relevant sensor output pattern but I would like to get it running first after confirmation that the fuelling (Injectors) is correct.
I have bought a Rovacomlite (Fore runner to the Faultmate) and have loaded a couple of F/L modules on to it, DDE4 (TD4) and the CCU. Unfortunately the hardware has developed a fault and it has been shipped back to BBS for repair or replacement with a Faultmate MSV if it's non serviceable.
I had a Faultmate fully loaded with P38 stuff for many years and my hands on experience is that it beats the T4 hands down with it's capabilities. I also had a T4 many years ago and I sold it on as it was more restrictive than the BBS stuff.
It seems that this particular problem is jinxed with setbacks coming from all directions.
 
Irishrover said:
No sign of the injectors:( doubt very much they will be here now. Tried ringing them and missed them-they finish at 4.00 p.m. on Fridays :eek:

Regarding the sensors etc., It's fine working in a main stealer, if a part is suspect, nip into the stores, get a new one, open the box carefully and try it-if it's not a fix, carefully put it back in the box and place back on the shelf......repeat this process until a cure is found !!! I feel that any sensor such as the Camshaft and Crank position sensors do not pack up at the same time-too much of a coincidence.
I have an oscilloscope here and will if needs be run a scan on the relevant sensor output pattern but I would like to get it running first after confirmation that the fuelling (Injectors) is correct.
I have bought a Rovacomlite (Fore runner to the Faultmate) and have loaded a couple of F/L modules on to it, DDE4 (TD4) and the CCU. Unfortunately the hardware has developed a fault and it has been shipped back to BBS for repair or replacement with a Faultmate MSV if it's non serviceable.
I had a Faultmate fully loaded with P38 stuff for many years and my hands on experience is that it beats the T4 hands down with it's capabilities. I also had a T4 many years ago and I sold it on as it was more restrictive than the BBS stuff.
It seems that this particular problem is jinxed with setbacks coming from all directions.
Click to expand...
Comiserations John, it's really testing your little grey cells:)
 
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