Td4 - lost engine oil - outlook ?

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dooroy

Active Member
Posts
272
Location
Co. Galway , Ireland
My brother-in-law was driving to work last week when his Td4 (2001 , 70k mls) lost power at about 60mph so he let it roll on to the hard shoulder . As he came to a stop it cut out and all dash lights etc came on . It wouldn't restart so he called a breakdown service and they discovered there was no oil showing on the dipstick. He is certain there was no sign of an oil light until it came on with all the others when it cut out.
He had it recovered to my place and having refilled it with oil ( the O ring at the top of the oil filter housing had failed) it restarted after a few turns and ran OK but there is now a knock from the engine .It sounds to me like the noise you would hear from the Ford OHC Pinto engines when the camshaft failed (anyone recall those?). Its slower than engine speed and I felt it was coming from the top of the engine - but it has been suggested to me that the big ends are the most likely to fail in this situation.
Has anyone had a similar experience - I was hoping that the fact the oil light didn't come on meant that some oil pressure remained and that the engine cut out as the hydraulic tappets were starved of oil.
Any ideas / advice much appreciated.
 
whats more than likely happened is the turbo has failed due to a blocked breather and the oil has gone down the exhaust (does it smoke?)

the knock you hear (as its from the top) is worn bores and piston slap. Due oil starvation, the little oil jets at the base of the bores which squirt oil to cool and lubricate the pistons haven't been squirting. If you take the head off, you'll find one or more of the bores will be badly scuffed, so its either a new engine or a rebuild with a rebore and oversize pistons provided the damage isn't too bad.

I have seen this once on a td4 and once on a bmw straght six as fitted to p38 range rover, both were down to low oil

Another thing i have seen before is servere excess movement in the big ends causing the piston to hit the head (same kind of noise)
 
Thanks for your reply clutchdust. The oil leaked from the engine over a day or two due it seems due to the O ring at the top of the filter housing giving way - the whole underside of the Freelander is covered in oil back to the rear box . Unfortunately the driver didn't notice this.
There was no smoke as I at first suspected turbo failure and as I said no sign of an oil light.
I am in the process of removing the sump but even if I find the big ends gone and replace them (assuming no other damage) your experience would suggest that the head should also come off.
So the outlook is not good - are there any 'tricky' bits if I have to rebuild .
 
dooroy said:
are there any 'tricky' bits if I have to rebuild .
Click to expand...

The only tricky bit i can think of is, there are no timing marks, there are special tools to lock the cams and tensioners and a pin to lock the crank when timing it up, without these tools, you wont be able to do it.

I would definately take the head off as i pretty much guarantee the bores will be scored.
 
Got the sump off tonight and before I loosened big ends I used a big pliers to try to rock each one and found play in no. 1 and one of the shells was well worn. I have them all taken off now and will try to get a new set tomorrow. The shaft is unmarked so new shells should sort out the knock.
However ,Clutchdust , you reckon the bores will be scored. The engine was running fine except for the knock - would the problem show up later ? I managed to get a Haynes manual today and the top end seems fairly complicated - and as you said there are some special locking tools required which I dont have and the drawings in the manual would take ages to work out and make .
If the new big ends get rid of the knock would it be worth driving it for a while and see how it goes ?
Update : the local eng works at present can't get a set of shells and say I will probably have to go to the dealer.
Does anyone have an opinion on whether the big end bolts need to be changed - Haynes doesn't say they should , Autodata says to change them . Would they be okay with a dab of Loctite and then torqued up ?
 
Well I got the big end bearings and they are quite costly as big ends go due to the fact the top half are Sputter bearings . Fitted them started up and the knock is still there.
I took off the cam cover ( a lot of dismantling involved) as I still feel the knock is coming from the front (timing chain) end of the engine -and was hoping a cam lobe/roller would be worn or some other sign of damage but on a quick check (it was getting late ) could see nothing wrong .
I wonder would one of the injectors have failed and be causing the knock as it occurred to me that the first time I started the engine after refilling with oil there was very little of a knock -after a while running it seemed to get louder.
Its getting to the stage of having to decide between a rebuild or a replacement SH engine - and Td4's are scarce around here.
The big ends cost almost 100 euro (£65 approx) and if other parts are this expensive a rebuild could be costly ?
I have got a lot of items for Discoveries from Paddocks etc at a very reasonable price but they do little for the Freelander . Is there anyone who does a lot of Freelander parts ?
 
mine has just done the same no warning lights driving in the dark only problem is the car will not start again and is sezzed solid no warning the oil was full as i had only checked 6 hours before it happend dipping it after it was at the bottom of the dip stick have had the car recoverd to a freinds house for now as only had basic recovery 10 miles then &#163;100 for the other 15 miles there is warrente as the ive not had it long <no one open sundays> lets see if its worth the paper its printed on
 
wont work tho - will it? if the oil press warning lite dont come on, it implies that the press is fine until theres no oil left. I reckon wots wanted is an electronic dipstick - i know sum cars had em - maybe ya jag? - hook that up - yu got a warning system - yes?
 
would to!!!!! you see it dropping with a gauge whereas with a light its either on or orf.. and as it gos orf with min pressure you wouldn't know but wiff a gauge you would be able to see it drop before yer injun went bang
 
im sure car manufactures build these faults in

im always very aware of whats going on in the dash it wasnt till i was well on the hard sholder any lights came on how gutted i am no transport at the mo cant even contact the warrente to get it checked the AA contractor filled with oil and tried it nothing ive since had it tried later still nothing sezzed if only i had some warning bmw's thaught they were 1 step ahead of the rest its not like its never been looked after or mistreated f/lr/s/h its up for sale when i get it back should have keeped my pug went on forever audi next ?
 
kit2301 said:
mine has just done the same no warning lights driving in the dark only problem is the car will not start again and is sezzed solid no warning the oil was full as i had only checked 6 hours before it happend dipping it after it was at the bottom of the dip stick have had the car recoverd to a freinds house for now as only had basic recovery 10 miles then £100 for the other 15 miles there is warrente as the ive not had it long <no one open sundays> lets see if its worth the paper its printed on
Click to expand...

When you say that after the engine stopped and you checked the oil and saw it to the bottom of the dipstick, how long after the engine stopped did you check the oillevel ?? It is possible that when you go back to get the car at your friend's place either today or later that when checking the oil at that time the level will be normal. This on condition of course you checked the level right after the engine stopped and all the oil was still floating around in the engine where after a certain period of time the oil is all returned back to the pan.
 
disagree Slob.

Petrol pressure dont drop depending on fuel level in the tank, does it?
The Oil pressure pump will continue to maintain its set pressure as long as it gets enuf oil to pump without interruption. It will only reduce pressure if

a) the oil gets too hot and therefore thins too much.
b) the oil going through the pump cavitates due to air getting in the system (very low oil level)
c) the bearings are shot - bit late by then!

the driver needs to know when the oil level starts to go down, not when it has all gone!
therefore i reckon an electric level indicator is the answer, it would also have the bonus of being used for normal dipstick use.
 
im always very aware of whats going on in the dash it wasnt till i was well on the hard sholder any lights came on how gutted i am no transport at the mo cant even contact the warrente to get it checked the AA contractor filled with oil and tried it nothing ive since had it tried later still nothing sezzed if only i had some warning bmw's thaught they were 1 step ahead of the rest its not like its never been looked after or mistreated f/lr/s/h its up for sale when i get it back should have keeped my pug went on forever audi next ?
 
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