Td4 injector removal - resolved

Onionfarmer · Mar 3, 2022

Slow starting, a little lumpy for a few seconds and exhaust gas smell through the cabin blowers tell me I need to take a good look at the injectors.
Since the gods of mechanicing enjoy torturing me I just KNOW this is gonna be a PITA to remove whichever injector it is. I’ve searched around methods and figure I’m gonna get a tool to do the job. Does anyone have a recommendation for one that doesn’t cost hundreds of £?
As an aside, I haven’t seen it described but logic says if I slacken the retaining clamps for the injector(s) and run the engine, shouldn’t the pressures involved remove the injector for me? I’m guessing there’s a very good reason why this hasn’t been described anywhere, but if anyone knows please share!

lynall · Mar 3, 2022

Yes loosening clamps can allow an injector to pop free, it an old dodge and one I have used a few times, but the issue is normally the tip is as tight as arseholes in the head not the main injector body.
Simply loosen the clamps bolts then remove the inj pipe/s and with a large spanner see if you can wiggle the injector, if it wiggles even just a kantts cock then its going to come out with some duck oil/wd40 etc.

One guy many moons ago could not get an injector out of a diesel corsa, so i said remove clamps and drive it, he did so with a blanket over the engine to protect the bonnet, it took weeks before it went pop.

Always anneal the injector copper washers, even if they are new.

Arctic2 · Mar 3, 2022

Hi O-farmer.
The first and best thing to do is locate which injector is giving the problem, either by leak back test, or get the Fl plugged into a diagnostic reader.
Once you know which injector, or two is the problem, run the engine up to temp so it's nice and hot, remove the manifold.

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Next remove the loom.

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Then remove the leak back hoses, by removing the spring clips.

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Then lift off the T connectors.

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Now loosen the two 8mm nuts either side of the injector.

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Then crack the 17mm nut on the fuel pipes, to that injector.

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All 4 need to be undone.

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And the fuel pipes removed.

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Now using a flat piece of bar lay that on the cam cover.

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The bar is used so you can pry up the injector without damaging the cam cover.

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Once the injector as lifted remove the 8mm nuts.

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Then pry out the injector completely.

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Make sure that the copper washer comes out with the injector, and no debris falls into the pot.

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clean round the injector hole with an hoover

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Add new injector and new copper washer, and reverse fit everything you removed.

Nodge68 · Mar 3, 2022

I'd change the glow plugs before condemning an injector.

lynall · Mar 3, 2022

Nodge68 said:
I'd change the glow plugs before condemning an injector.

I'd change the car

Onionfarmer · Mar 4, 2022

Wow thanks for the post & pics! I’ll have a go at it this weekend, hopefully I can get it out without breaking something!

Onionfarmer · Mar 4, 2022

lynall said:
Yes loosening clamps can allow an injector to pop free, it an old dodge and one I have used a few times, but the issue is normally the tip is as tight as arseholes in the head not the main injector body.
Simply loosen the clamps bolts then remove the inj pipe/s and with a large spanner see if you can wiggle the injector, if it wiggles even just a kantts cock then its going to come out with some duck oil/wd40 etc.

One guy many moons ago could not get an injector out of a diesel corsa, so i said remove clamps and drive it, he did so with a blanket over the engine to protect the bonnet, it took weeks before it went pop.

Always anneal the injector copper washers, even if they are new.

Thanks for that - If I wind up trying this method are you saying I need to remove the injector fixings completely? I was hoping to just allow a few mm of movement rather than worrying about it popping up through the bonnet to say ‘hi’

lynall · Mar 4, 2022

Onionfarmer said:
Thanks for that - If I wind up trying this method are you saying I need to remove the injector fixings completely? I was hoping to just allow a few mm of movement rather than worrying about it popping up through the bonnet to say ‘hi’

No I would loosen the clamps as much as you dare, the guy with the corsa had tried every trick in the book hence he removed the clamps fully.

But you have to admit a hole in the bonnet would be quite cool!

I had my d3 ones out the other week and was surprised just how tight one of them was bearing in mind I replaced all 6 approx 2 years ago.

Arctic2 · Mar 4, 2022

Sometimes you get stuck injector then you have to bring out the slide hammer.

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Nodge68 · Mar 4, 2022

I'd still be changing the glow plugs before doing the injectors.

J_D · Mar 4, 2022

Nodge68 said:
I'd still be changing the glow plugs before doing the injectors.

Agreed, if a couple of glow plugs fail then those cylinder won't ignite the fuel, which then goes out the exhaust and smells like unburnt fuel. And may be some white smoke until they start firing correct.
Glow plugs can be tested in situ with a meter. Resistance across each glow plug should be around 1 ohm

Onionfarmer · Mar 13, 2022

Ok, took a week longer than I expected but I finally got the time to work on it. Starting has been getting progressively worse & it had started spraying out oily diesel crud into the engine bay. On the plus side it didn’t take long to identify the injector 1 or 4? on the passenger side (the battery side) as being the culprit!
I decided to swap out all the injectors but I couldn’t budge the injector on the other side (under the oil filler cap), so swapped out 3 of the 4 & I’ll come back to that one!

It now starts on the first turnover but I will check the flow plugs as well.

The problem injector didn’t have a copper washer in the port. It’s possible I sucked it up with the pipe attached to the hoover that I used to clean the crud out all of the ports, but I’m 90% sure it wasn’t there to start with.
Attached a pic to show the state of the injectors I took out vs the ones going in

Arctic2 · Mar 14, 2022

This thread below maybe of interest to you regarding your old injectors, and cleaning them up,

Freelander 1 - Diesel mist spraying all over the Fuel Rail & Injectors | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum

Nodge68 · Mar 15, 2022

Onionfarmer said:
Attached a pic to show the state of the injectors I took out vs the ones going in

Did you use new copper washers, and cleaned the seats too, as 3 of those injectors have clearly been leaking at the copper washer.

hd3 · Mar 15, 2022

F.W.I.W. .. 'n maybe a bit late ;-/

from when i changed my injectors .. be a yt.vid here re.injectors :
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...tion-at-high-speed.362488/page-3#post-4957152
in which a certain make of hi-temp. ceramic grease is mentioned [ worth noting ]

i pre-soaked with wd40 .. around the injector collars .. for a number of days .. prior to removal
and drove the car to warm things up .. a few times ..
pic here .. of the injectors as they came out { i did not wipe-clean them }
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...tion-at-high-speed.362488/page-3#post-4988053

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Did you use new copper washers, and cleaned the seats too, as 3 of those injectors have clearly been leaking at the copper washer.

+ 1 .. to that ..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Onionfarmer · Mar 23, 2022

Aarghhhh! I think you lot have crystal balls

All ok to start with, but pretty soon back to square one. Hell of a lot of cranking to start & I can feel it missing & I can see it blowing out behind the injector on the battery side (injector 1?) Where the injectors sit fills up with oily diesel, which runs down the side of the engine & burns up on the exhaust manifold and leaves a nice signature on the floor where I park my car

.

It happened quickly, so thought I screwed something up & decided to reseat the injector. The removed injector's o-ring had completely disintegrated at the back of the injector so I actually wound up replacing the injector with the unused one from my first attempt, but lost the new copper washer and reused the 'nearly new' one from a couple of days prior.....same result second time around.

Third time lucky? I'm waiting for new o-rings/washers shaft cleaning & seat cutter to arrive (should be tomorrow). My plan is to use these before I try again on injector 1!! I was coming on to ask if there is any other tips/tricks products I can use for a difficult to seal injector but I suspect that has just been answered above before I even asked the question!!

I was wondering if there was a non-standard copper washer that might be better suited or if heating it to soften before installation would help or just set fire to my eyebrows! I'm guessing the ceramic grease is the answer to this one though.

Oh, on the second attempt I lubricated the o-ring with a little diesel to make seating the injector easy....was that a good or bad idea?

Thanks all!

Onionfarmer · Mar 27, 2022

Slow progress! Ok....pulled the no.1 injector (again!!) cleaned the shaft, seat, refitted with ceramic grease AND.....still blowing.
I may be off on one, but I'm now thinking the oily diesel pumping out of the injector base is in fact plain oil. There's no longer any diesel smell to it.
I've replaced the seals around the crankcase breather, no oil coming from there.
If I remove the oil filler cap while the engine's running I see the exhaust fumes pumping out of the filler & the injector stops blowing.

Is it possible it's the rocker cover gasket that's failed around the injector 1 port?

Arctic2 · Mar 27, 2022

Onionfarmer said:
Slow progress! Ok....pulled the no.1 injector (again!!) cleaned the shaft, seat, refitted with ceramic grease AND.....still blowing.
I may be off on one, but I'm now thinking the oily diesel pumping out of the injector base is in fact plain oil. There's no longer any diesel smell to it.
I've replaced the seals around the crankcase breather, no oil coming from there.
If I remove the oil filler cap while the engine's running I see the exhaust fumes pumping out of the filler & the injector stops blowing.

Is it possible it's the rocker cover gasket that's failed around the injector 1 port?

It not the cam cover hole that the small engine cover bolts into is it, as it the photo below, as quite a few times i have seen this as been pierced and spits out oil when running if the bolts is not in and tight enough?

1

hole with yellow dots

Colmhd1955 · Mar 27, 2022

I'm having similar problems with mine and have been leaning towards gasket failure. But have been told by local Landy garage that that isn't likely. Pulled no1 injector out and it was slimy. Water level hasn't really moved in the expansion tank so also at a loss. Am following this thread with interest. Good luck with yours.

Onionfarmer · Mar 27, 2022

Definitely not the cam cover bolt - I learnt that one the hard way in the early days.

Just like the existence of the crankshaft breather.

The more I look at this the more I’m convinced it’s engine oil pushing out at the top of the injector 1 port. I’ve seen fraying rubber at the top of the port….at first I thought it was the remnants of the injector o-ring. It’s about in the same place.

Td4 injector removal - resolved

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