Suspected IRD problems. Need confirmation

MoominTD4 said:

Right. Just done a near 20 mile journey and checked the VCU... stone cold... Hmmmmmm.
And on second inspections, it looks brand new...

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You have several options ere.

A stone cold vcu after driving 20 miles is suspect. The temp on the outside is only a guide of whats going on inside the vcu. Either the props are spinning the same speed the vast majority of the time (highly unlikely), the vcu is seized, the vcu is suspect like empty or open circuit, or something it missing which means your driving 2 wheel drive.

1. perform the one wheel up test to see how your vcu performs. If the rear wheel spins freely then:

2. watch the prop shafts to see if they both turn during the one wheel up test (they shouldn't, only the rear prop should turn). If they both turn this would indicate there's something missing from yer ird (what the front prop connects to). If none of the props turn and the wheel spins freely then there's something missing in yer rear diff (sadly what someone on ere has just found out).

3. burn it.

Hippo said:

3. burn it.

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You don't know how close I am to swapping for a disco. I've always fancied the 3dr 300tdi. One thing that's bugging me about the hippo is that all this 'VCU' talk just seems a bit wet. I'm a little annoyed at how some sticky fluid is

A. Governing when and if I get four wheel drive
B. now halting my automotive progress and potentially costing me cash I don't really have.

I shouldn't complain though, I read up about this stuff before I bought it and I took the risk. So enough ranting from me.

I know the rear diff is sound or at least 'has all its bits' as I spun the wheels frequently while doing the brakes and it all spun nice and free as it should.

I had both back wheels up at the time and I definitely saw the back half of the prop turn, don't know about the front though.
I'll do the 'one wheel up' test before I take the prop off.

I hope there's no permanent damage...

MoominTD4 said:

...
I hope there's no permanent damage...

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The only permanent damage is from the nasty comments we get from tratterers.

MoominTD4 said:

You don't know how close I am to swapping for a disco. I've always fancied the 3dr 300tdi. One thing that's bugging me about the hippo is that all this 'VCU' talk just seems a bit wet. I'm a little annoyed at how some sticky fluid is

A. Governing when and if I get four wheel drive
B. now halting my automotive progress and potentially costing me cash I don't really have.

I shouldn't complain though, I read up about this stuff before I bought it and I took the risk. So enough ranting from me.

I know the rear diff is sound or at least 'has all its bits' as I spun the wheels frequently while doing the brakes and it all spun nice and free as it should.

I had both back wheels up at the time and I definitely saw the back half of the prop turn, don't know about the front though.
I'll do the 'one wheel up' test before I take the prop off.

I hope there's no permanent damage...

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As Hippo stated earlier, if the rear prop turns and the front prop doesn't then the VCU is probably empty of fluid or in open state. Some reconditioners sell these on eBay, Bell engineering don't.

Ok, not had chance to get the prop off yet as work shouted me in again when I was supposed to be off. I've been using it, but not been hammering it.

Thing is though, I've been doing some calc's and some thinking and I'm thinking of dropping the prop off and selling the 'lander and getting a disco before the IRD goes and letting someone who has the cash and time put a bit of cash into it and have a belter.

There's no way I'm getting even half the money for even a cheap VCU together before the snow gets here. I saved like a bas***d for almost a year to buy this car and it stands me at a lot of cash. I can drive it 2wd only, but I need the 4x4 capability eventually, so it's not going for pennies.

It sickens me because me and the missus both love this car and it is plush inside being the kalahari model, but a decision needs making. I've not made it yet, but I can't see another way out.

I'll still try to do the torque test on the VCU and I'll still report after I get the prop off as to whether any of the trouble is still there.

Thanks for all the advice and input guys. It should be tomorrow (if I'm lucky) when I get the prop off.

Ok, well, managed to get the prop off earlier today.

I'd been driving the car (with the vibration) and the metallic knocking and clinking became worse day by day. It got to the point where just driving in a straight line sounded like something battering the prop with spanners.
After I dropped the prop, it became apparent the problem was a busted UJ! Of all the things!

I mustn't have checked it properly when I went underneath after doing the brakes. Although, it would've been much less worn back then, so harder to spot.

I'll just get this repaired and hopefully all the noisy vibration will be gone! It's quiet and smooth running 2wd...

Thanks for all the suggests again guys!

Cool! Update us when you've replaced the UJ to let us know what it was.

Ok, so I managed to find a garage called 'Land Ranger Specialists' up here in atherton.
The guy is brilliant, really nice bloke with loads of information, a garage full of landers/rangies and a huge stock of genuine parts.
I got 2 UJ's for the back half of the prop (ones gone, the other is going), the diff mount (I discovered it was starting to perish when I was under there last) and the thermostwat housing (the one on mine looks to be cracked causing my cars incontinence problems).

The nice man at Land Ranger plugged in the car this morning and could see that my injectors are all working as they should. Number four needs a de coke and re-seat (that's what's been causing the over fuelling and lumpy idle on cold starts), but as far as operation is concerned, they all work. It's good to know really as I replaced two of them a couple of months ago.

The knock on the drivers side appears to be an ARB drop link, which will get sorted next pay day hopefully and my drivers door not locking/unlocking with the key I think is down to a rod off inside the door. That'll get looked at tomorrow too.

I'll have a readjust of the handbrake tomorrow also now that the brakes are bedded in and I'll check the front drivers side is still working ok after un-ceasing the calliper.

Then it's just a case of a healthy dose of injector cleaner and a hunt round for some reasonably priced General Grabber A/T's (my rears are wearing low so I'm changing all four and I could do with some decent tyres for the winter months).

When the above is sorted, the car will be running like a dream and then it's just a service at Land Ranger (mainly so I can stamp the book, If I had a stamp I'd do it myself) and then the cosmetic stuff.

For now I am off to work, but tomorrow it's all systems go. Wish me luck!

Glad you have got/getting it sorted.

Keep us posted.

Wow, good to hear you're getting sorted! Nothing too serious either..

I think reseating of the injectors is really important. When mine were removed by a garage before I owned they didn;t bother and as a result I had blowby on all 4 and two were really seized. Not a difficult job- the hardest bit is removal and cleaning up the carbon crap in the hole. The correct tool is only £25 of the Bay.

Spacemonkey... said:

Wow, good to hear you're getting sorted! Nothing too serious either..

I think reseating of the injectors is really important. When mine were removed by a garage before I owned they didn;t bother and as a result I had blowby on all 4 and two were really seized. Not a difficult job- the hardest bit is removal and cleaning up the carbon crap in the hole. The correct tool is only £25 of the Bay.

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So were they leaking around the injectors-smell of diesel? Mine look dry and no smell. They were serviced before I bought the car.

Well mine is the diesel smell on start up, bluey tinge to the smoke and a slightly rough idle. Clears up when it's warm though.

MoominTD4 said:

Well mine is the diesel smell on start up, bluey tinge to the smoke and a slightly rough idle. Clears up when it's warm though.

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That sounds all too familiar. Mine will be checked over this week.

Don't notice the smell much, but thinking about it I have smelt diesel on startup in the past.

How long does your idle roughly for?

Well if I leave it Idling and don't touch it can be anywhere between about 5 and 10 minutes, just till the engine gets a little bit warm, then it straightens out.

Best way to check if you're unsure is to give it a boot full on a cold start up.

I know, I know, it's never good to rev a cold engine, but keep your eye on your wing mirror, start the car and push the pedal down to the floor, allow the revs to build for 2 to 3 seconds and then release the pedal. If you got the smoke, you got the problem. Don't do this test often though or you'll damage the engine.

Find out as soon as you can if you have the smoke or not. Mine killed two injectors because they were compensating for one that wasn't seated correctly.

If the idle is erratic (not 'a bit lumpy', properly erratic) even when warm, then your injectors could've given up already.

MoominTD4 said:

If the idle is erratic (not 'a bit lumpy', properly erratic) even when warm, then your injectors could've given up already.

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Mine is rough for about 5 seconds. Blue smoke as well. Then it idles smoothly. For the rest of the day.

If it clears up then it definitely sounds like it's still a seating issue.

It's now just a task of finding which one it is!

Originally mine was terrible for it, so I left it idling and got a screwdriver placed my ear on the handle and the tip on top of the injector. My number one was silent (because it was goosed), two and three were good and four was so badly seated it was actually lifting up and down a few thou' and when I out the screwdriver on it, it was actually hitting me in the head.

Just do this test to see if you can find an anomaly!

Alternatively get a dude with a 'puter what fits in your cars electronic thingamajigger and have him tell you by use of all the electrickery type witchcraft what yer cars doin!

I don;t recall a smell of diesel from the engine bay, but got a whiff of exhaust every now and then. Yes, mine were leaking from the injector seal and forming carbonised goo up the sides of the injectors. Sounded like a V twin on idle and was rough throughout the range.

Read posts 32-34 and up to 48 for afterthoughts again in my sorry saga: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/finally-got-another-freelander-237094-4.html

Initially I had tons of white/grey smoke on start smelling of unburned diesel like you get on older diesels with knurdled glow plugs. The day before I ripped them out (haha- beat them out more like..) I was stuck in traffic crawling along for half an hour and it smoked and ran like a dog despite warming up and took a couple of miles of clear road to stop. Not good...

Oh, and when I had refitted I noticed a hole punched in the sound proofing and a small dent in the bonnet right above an injector, leading to to suspect the garage had used the engine starting tecnique to release the injectors before. sadly, they obviously never thought to put heavy rags and weights above the injectors first....

Well, all seems to be well!

I've renewed the diff mount and both rear prop UJ's. I didn't get chance to do thermostat housing as I lost the light. I did have time to inspect it though and I may not need to change it. It appeared to be cracked, but closer inspection says it's ok.

The car now drives smooth as silk and feels really torquey.
I also properly adjusted my rear brakes and handbrake, it's tight as a nuns chuff now! Feels great! First time since I've owned the car that I stopped on a hill and didn't need to put it in gear! Way hey! (I still left it in gear when I got out though as that's just good sense).

It's just a case of tinkering here and there now to finish it off.

It's a big relief that the VCU and IRD are ok. The VCU really does look new so I think it's been done at some point. I just don't have any receipts for it. Here's hoping they don't chuck out before winter hits!

As far as the above running problem goes, I never got a diesel smell from the engine bay either, only from the exhaust.