Stuck rings? Help!

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Man up, last time I lifted the head on my landy it was in a field in the snow haha, true story. I'm being flippant of course, its a bugger working out in the drive, let alone in the road. I would say though, if youre tipping all manner of stuff down the bores don't run the engine without changing the oil. diesel doesnt make the best lubricant, especially in a diesel engine.

edit: try innotec deblock. Its great stuff. It freed off my PT engine after it had sat in a field for at least 50 years. It took 9 months of soaking though
 
the active ingredient in modern redex is just petrol. if you are gonna do it, go with diesel or thin engineers oil or something
 
Rob: are you familiar with these folks? https://www.parts4engines.com/ Bits for Perkins engines, don't know if their prices are keen or what?
I think I've heard of Mystery oil being mentioned on the "Mercedes Source" channel on You Tube. Knowing your love of old Mercs I reckon you will have heard of it.
Doesn't ethanol dissolve carbon?
 
9 months?! I've got some time but this is gestation! Part4engines are really good, the Perkins 4203 are seriously out of fashion when it comes to Series (pardon pun) but I like them. They are smooth, torquey at very low revs and economical (30 mpg). They are also very strong, huge bearings, all gears for timing and oil pump and built to last. Parts are cheap and avialable everywhere, OK I need them in Slough, but its comforting to know I could get them next day in Timbuktoo. I'll look up the deblock, but I fear I'm becoming a landy version of an internet hypocondriac - "I've found this great website; just this one more medicine will cure it..".
Still, I can't wait for the Marvel Mystery Oil to arrive, the name alone builds high hopes, I wonder if its any good for knees?
But I do have another serious question: I'm 99% sure this was a good engine when it stopped and now its pants. I've been assuming carbon but it could be veg oil. Veg oil oxidises to a varnish (the original oil paints were veg oi base) so could the PO have been running part veg and that's what's set? If so I need a different approach. I'm thinking acetone (not least because I have some) or something that is more "paint stripper". I didn't change the oil so I can put anything in and change it as soon as the rings free up. As the injectors are out I'm also thinking of motoring on the starter more as this will save the bottom end (and our road).
I can see this is trunign into a moral dilemma:
Mystery oil in cylinder = diet pill vs strip the engine = excersise and healthy eating.
I've done my share of excercise and healthy eating and I deserve a diet pill that works!
 
rob1miles said:
9 months?! I've got some time but this is gestation! Part4engines are really good, the Perkins 4203 are seriously out of fashion when it comes to Series (pardon pun) but I like them. They are smooth, torquey at very low revs and economical (30 mpg). They are also very strong, huge bearings, all gears for timing and oil pump and built to last. Parts are cheap and avialable everywhere, OK I need them in Slough, but its comforting to know I could get them next day in Timbuktoo. I'll look up the deblock, but I fear I'm becoming a landy version of an internet hypocondriac - "I've found this great website; just this one more medicine will cure it..".
Still, I can't wait for the Marvel Mystery Oil to arrive, the name alone builds high hopes, I wonder if its any good for knees?
But I do have another serious question: I'm 99% sure this was a good engine when it stopped and now its pants. I've been assuming carbon but it could be veg oil. Veg oil oxidises to a varnish (the original oil paints were veg oi base) so could the PO have been running part veg and that's what's set? If so I need a different approach. I'm thinking acetone (not least because I have some) or something that is more "paint stripper". I didn't change the oil so I can put anything in and change it as soon as the rings free up. As the injectors are out I'm also thinking of motoring on the starter more as this will save the bottom end (and our road).
I can see this is trunign into a moral dilemma:
Mystery oil in cylinder = diet pill vs strip the engine = excersise and healthy eating.
I've done my share of excercise and healthy eating and I deserve a diet pill that works!
Click to expand...
You could be onto something with the veg oil thing, a few years ago I rebuilt an old Ariel motorcycle engine and gearbox for a mate who had the parts soaking and all covered in veg oil for many years, in his mind to preserve them against the very high humidity we get in our part of the world, long story short, I ended up having to "wire wheel brush" everything to remove the gunk, no amount of solvents, I tried a few different ones, would completely remove the stuff.
Many of the bits were brand new parts, big end roller pin and roller bearings, rings, piston, valves, main bearings and so on, I got to the stage where I felt the parts were ruined with the veg oil build up and because it was taking so much labour to remove the gunge, I near gave the whole lot back to him to have the engine assembled somewhere else.
So like I say, once that stuff has set, it is extremely hard to shift, I would not be at all surprised to find it is the problem with Mr Perkins.
I reckon they could stick the re-entry heat shield tiles on the space shuttle with the stuff, and piston rings in grooves, just a doddle.
 
Update -
1 its still soaking - I'm nervous of starting it up and dumping another quart of oil outside our house, we live in a nice cul de sac and only one house has a filthy oild patch outside...it will soon show up on Zoopla.
2 spoke to very helpful guy at Perkins - his advice -"keep soaking it" and do compressions tests so you can see how its going. He was also of the view of don't strip it unless you have to.

A lot of these engines are powering boats and the culture there is anything to avoid a strip down, I think that's because the engine often is so hard to get to no one can face it!
 
Put a drip tray under the engine to catch the oil or at least a thick piece of cardboard. My landy leaks a fair bit and my drive looks bad too, it's not the engine on mine, it's also the gearbox, transfer box and both axles.

Col
 
Colthebrummie said:
Put a drip tray under the engine to catch the oil or at least a thick piece of cardboard. My landy leaks a fair bit and my drive looks bad too, it's not the engine on mine, it's also the gearbox, transfer box and both axles.

Col
Click to expand...
I bought a couple of long drip trays from Wilkos. Apert from keeping the oil off your drive or garage floor, you can also see how much oil is dripping out. Gets you thinking: How much drips out up the road when everything is hot?
 
Just to put htis in perspective, it pushed out 2 pints in a couple of minutes and formed a pool in the gutter. Once I can shift it I'll be jet washing the road! Still waiting for the Marvel Mystery Oil to arrive.
 
That's a hell of a lot of oil, must be an enormous amount of blow-by. It would be very interesting to find out if it is just one piston or more than one. It is possible that it could be a head gasket problem, blowing into a push-rod tube for example.
 
For that much to leak I would look elsewhere. My series 3 sometimes leaks badly from the front crank seal, other time it doesn't leak at all. I should fix it really but it saves me doing oil changes.

Col
 
I think it was all four cylinders when it first started. The oil smoke collumn from the engine filler cap engulfed the whole car and me and obliteraed the view. Its hard to describe how much smoke there was. I kept it just off idle and it gradually got better over about 10 mins running to the point where I thought I could drive it with the engine cap off. I wanted to get more heat into the pistons. But it is dumping the whole differnce between the top of the dipstick and no oil pressure in about 10 mins now. The rear crank seal is a rope seal and the pressure can push past that. After a 5 mile run (and 4 pints of oil top up on the way) I pulled the injectors and 2 are clean and two are running in engine oil. But, cracking injectors at idle all cylinders are firing and while it is runing hot and down on power it still got up to 50mph, bear in mind its a 109 with big wheels, an overdrive, RR diffs and a camper roof so that's not bad.. If I lived on a farm I think I would buy a drum of cheap oil and drive around a field for an hour, that seems to be the red-neck fix and judging by youtube it works!. Next steps Marvel Mystery Oil, (when it finally arrives) and acetone.
 
Update: Well head to the top of the class everyone who said "strip it down"! Got the pistons out and only 1 has rings that are not in pieces. Oil rings all ok but compression rings broken and look to have been broken for a while. Liners are quite worn, much more worn than my old engine which had cracked liners and burn marks on the block. One new piston with rings ok, 3 old pistons with broken rings. So some questions:
1 Anyone changed liners on a 4203? It looks tricky. Liner plus piston assy about £65 per cylinder.
2 Worth putting just pistons and rings in when there's a fair size (yet to measure) wear ridge? No scores
3 In situe hone?
4 This has me baffled - engine has nearly new big ends - look hardly worn, sump all clean, nearly new cylinder head (still clean makers paint) and new waterpump bearings, but the worst pistons I've ever seen? How, what logic?
5 Anyone out there know this engine, its a 4203 removed from a Series in Norfolk around early 2016 and probably not running before that. Can you explain why was it rebuilt the way it was?
 
Don't know why but I would guess that it was a rebuild project and the guy doing it gave up/sold the truck it was going into/got a modern engine instead, TDi perhaps and then didnt want to spend the money finishing off this engine so stuck it back together to sell it on dishonestly.
gill
 
i know the engines arent particular powerful or cheerful, their unique selling point or feature is doing hundreds of thousands of hours slogging away with no trouble. yours doesnt have this USP. so is it worth spending money on it when that could be a.n.other engine ?
 
It may have been stuck together - I do suspect someone gave up, but I paid very little for it, less than the value of the head and starter. What is annoying is that I wrongly assumed if it had a new head it was probably OK inside so its down to me.

Re worth it or not? A good question. If I can get this one going I will as parts are quite cheap and I like the Perkins - it suits the LWB camper. We can cruise at 55-60 and 30 mpg, it would be useless for serious off road, but that's not what we do, the odd green lane is our limit but it great for a loaded camper plus Sankey. The options are the Perkins 4 198 a better engine and I just missed one for £150 but they need the exhaust swapped over or a 200TDI but having tried one I was surpised that it was even noiser than the Perkins, still it is probably "plan B". My prefence is get the Perkins up and runnig so we can do a few more weekends away while I work out a better long term solution.

Its all about measuring the bores now and seeing if I can get away with just pistons.
 
Fit new rings, check ring gap in bore before fitting. If it works, job done. If it fails, fit tdi engine and not much spent on old engine. Ring gap in bore is important, too big and it will not work.
 
It does sound like it's been a project which someone has given up on when they came across the difficult / costly bit and just bolted it back together for a sale. Is it not worth rebuilding the old engine and refitting? Maybe this engine may have compromised some oil seals and would generally benefit from a fuller inspection, if only for you own peace of mind. You don't want to be pulling it again in a few months time. I guess it's all a bit disappointing and disheartening right now but if you feel that this is the right engine for your Land Rover and how you use it, then it is probably worth time and money thrown at it.
 
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