Stuck rings? Help!

Is it possible to cover the entire crankshaft with a towel or some such? I would use a good magnet after honing in an attempt to pick up any stray metal particles.

Col

It also occured to me that i could wrap it in clingfilm. I'm especially worried about bits of grit geting into the shells. Filter will protect the bearings but not the pump.

How are you planning on heating the block?

I've been advised to lightly hone the block - as its a 0.001 transion fit this could make all the differnce, freeze the liners and pour boiling water into the block. These things look to be spun cast iron and are only about 1.5mm think. I really don't want to be forcing things. OK at £20 each its not the end of the world but I'm aiming for them to drop in most of the way then a few taps, fingers crossed. I have the tool I made to pull them out which could be modified to pull them in, but its not that simple as there is no real lip under the block to pull against with the crank in. I wiped everything down last night and it looked really clean, then I blew it out with an airline; at least a dozen pieces of metal came out that were hidden in cavities so I will be blowing it again after the hone and after the liners. The orginal liners are a press fit but the replacements drop in, I guess that the heat / expansion holds them in and there is a small lip at the top.
Schoolboy error: Was under the engine and turned the crank only to have the best part of a cup-full of black oil go striaght into my hair, it took an hour to get out and I now look like a mop.

Did the old ones pull out without damage ?
If so why not try freezing one and see if it will drop in?
Might be worth getting a plumbers freeze spray can in case you need to cool them when partly fitted.

I know the engines apart but..

ATF does a good job of dissolving carbon and rust in bores, i had great success with a massey harris by filling the bores with dex 3 and leaving it for 2 weeks.

The thing spun over like a charm after the bath lol

ATF is intersting stuff. I've got the old sleeves out and honed the block, crank wrapped and I'll be jetwashing and air blasting everything before reassembley. Heated block and froze sleeve but it got 1/2way and stopped. Its not really stuck hard but i want to think before rushing at it. I've got a 20mm HT stud and plates made up for top and bottom so I can pull it in using stud joiners (more thread contact.) I've found a local supplier of dry ice - £23+vat for 10kg - its at -78C so I think I'll buy that, freeze the other sleeves and probably freeze the stopped one before winding it down on the stud. I got 1m M20 8.8 plus a 1/2 doz nuts, square washers and a couple of joiners for £18 so this is still not breaking the bank. Work is busy so I'll have to leave it a while before I can crack on.

You haven't left the liner half in and half out have you? Once you start to put a liner in, you need to be committed. Leaving it half way can distort it and give you problems later on.

Col

Friday the 13 but lucky so far. All the liners are in, even the one that stopped for a rest (we don't talk about "stuck" around here). Solution was the M20 bar, 2 stud joiners, lots of washers and two 4" square ally blocks. I now know a lot more about putting dry liners in. Dry ice would work great and be the fastest - they would shrink enough to go in all the way in a single go. Freezing to (say) -10 helps and lets you hammer them in without a lot of force but only about half way, by then the contact has let the tempurature equalise and there's no option other than to jack the rest of the way. 4 by 200 turns of an M20 stud is a good upper body work out. Next job is pistons in boiling water and gudgeon pins in.

Glad things are going your way Rob - you deserve a some luck here on in!

Would pipe freezing spray have been helpful?

rob1miles said:

Friday the 13 but lucky so far. All the liners are in, even the one that stopped for a rest (we don't talk about "stuck" around here). Solution was the M20 bar, 2 stud joiners, lots of washers and two 4" square ally blocks. I now know a lot more about putting dry liners in. Dry ice would work great and be the fastest - they would shrink enough to go in all the way in a single go. Freezing to (say) -10 helps and lets you hammer them in without a lot of force but only about half way, by then the contact has let the tempurature equalise and there's no option other than to jack the rest of the way. 4 by 200 turns of an M20 stud is a good upper body work out. Next job is pistons in boiling water and gudgeon pins in.

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I think you are doing a smashing job mate. But where the heck are the pictures? We need to see.....or it never happened lol ;-)

Good question? I never thought of it. The dry ice would have been quite reasonble at around £28 and if I did this again I would probably go that way. In this case I had to make the tool up to move the one that was half in as freezing it in situe looked hard and I didn't want to risk distorting the block by freezing one bore. Because of work commitments I could't get the dry ice until late next week and with the mixed forecast I wanted to get the sleeves in now so I may get time on Sunday to get the pistons in and bottom end on. Covering the top where the head is off is OK, but its hard to protect the crank - I have duct tape and clingfilm but I really want the sump pan back on. The bores look really nice as do the new pistons, I micced the journals and they are near spot on -010 so I think its had a recent regrind, I'm looking forward to some oil pressure and better then 100miles/pint of the old engine (and 200yds/pint on this one!). Their only mistake was putting it all together without sorting out the bores so it just trashed the top rings.

good result getting the liners in glad you are keeping us updated too, we are all invested now

Its running, and it runs really well, smooth, quiet (for a Perkins) and spot on oil pressure (I've never had that before). Its close to being a new engine. Once the liners went in I could see light at the end of the tunnel so today I decided I would finish in one big effort rather than drag things out, so 12 hours later its done. 2 hours of that were trying to get the sump on, awful job, if it fell on my head once it did it 5 times, then I found someone had used some M6 instead of UNC so there were some threads to re tap from underneath. But all time worst job was cleaning the bottom end with brake cleaner and an airline from underneath, it was not some much cleaning as moving it from the engine to me. The job I was dreading - getting the pistons is with 5 new rings a peice was a doddle using the fancy new ring compressor I got of e-bay for £4. Spun it on the starter with the injectors out until I got oil pressure then fuel bled and it fired on 2 cyls while I was bleeding the other 2. Now its run it for a week then re-torque the head and re-do the tappets. And sort the scrap to get some money back. Took some pics so I'll get those up loaded.

rob1miles said:

Its running, and it runs really well, smooth, quiet (for a Perkins) and spot on oil pressure (I've never had that before). Its close to being a new engine. Once the liners went in I could see light at the end of the tunnel so today I decided I would finish in one big effort rather than drag things out, so 12 hours later its done. 2 hours of that were trying to get the sump on, awful job, if it fell on my head once it did it 5 times, then I found someone had used some M6 instead of UNC so there were some threads to re tap from underneath. But all time worst job was cleaning the bottom end with brake cleaner and an airline from underneath, it was not some much cleaning as moving it from the engine to me. The job I was dreading - getting the pistons is with 5 new rings a peice was a doddle using the fancy new ring compressor I got of e-bay for £4. Spun it on the starter with the injectors out until I got oil pressure then fuel bled and it fired on 2 cyls while I was bleeding the other 2. Now its run it for a week then re-torque the head and re-do the tappets. And sort the scrap to get some money back. Took some pics so I'll get those up loaded.

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well done

To echo James, "Well done Rob" an interesting project and a great sense of achievement I should reckon.

Its great to have new bores and pistons, all back to orginal size and spec and it should run well for ages, I'm looking forward to a long run just to see the oil presure hold up, it used to be 25psi cold and 15 hot, sometimes less, now its sitting at 45 which is the relivef valve setting. But reality is never far away - first job today was jetwashing the road and pavement.

Good news Rob. The weather stayed kind too for an outside rebuild.

Yes that was a pleasant surprise. I've lived here close on 30 years but since I've had the series I've got to know the neighbours much better, not just the close ones but everyone who walks by. They all stop and say hello and ask how its going. The build took a hard 10 hours on sunday and I'd done a good half day ealier in the week pulling the liners in and there was some geniune support from passers by. The main bearing caps are 115 lb/ft, the big ends and head studs 70 lb/ft, thats 7 mains 4 rods (all x 2) and 20 head studs that have to be torqued 3 times. I think I was looking worn out! I now have to run it up to temp and torque the head again but its worth it as the Perkins are known for blowing head gaskets after rebuilds if the exact sequence is not followed. Sent off registration for Brooklands Miltiary Vehicles day now I know we can get there.