Starting issues ( Solved )

Hi,
I've a free lander 1 for my sins, had it from new. It's a 56 td4 SE,
Just lately it fails to start, it turns over no problem but won't fire, then after a few goes it starts but is quite lumpy, you go to rev and it dies. It does this for 5-10 times then will run fine for a day or two, or only a hour or so then won't start again and go through the same procedure.
Last few days it has cut out whilst driving ( not a nice experience lol ) I don't get any warning / engine management lights, just battery and oil light. After 5-10 attempts at starting it runs fine again ??
I had it put on diagnosis yesterday and there are no fault codes, low and high pump pressures were constant and within parameters,
Garage said the starting / lumpy issue could be a injector playing up and the cut out whilst driving is a different issue ?
I'm at a loss to what's up and don't won't to throw money at it if it's not the injectors, am really really hoping that some good fellas on here have had the same issues or could point me in the right direction, the cars only done 53k,
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Many thanks for reading,
Take care
Rich

Couple of easy cheap checks before delving deeper: check resistance of glow plugs, has starting got worse since colder weather? You may well have 2 issues, cutting out should leave a fault code and I don't think this would be injector related. Injector leak off may be worth doing, does it smoke when it starts? My first guess would be fuel filter but if pressure's OK then unless it is reducing fuel pressure at start and occasionally when running due to dirt it should be o.k. Did you check pressure when it was difficult to start?

Others will give suggestions, but not much to go on. Perhaps double check no codes with another reader?? I have a feeling that a crank sensor fault doesn't always throw a fault code. Faiy easy to substitute a spare one to eliminate it.

This might be a case of catching the fault in the act. I take it the diagnostics were done while the car was running fine?

Can you hear the fuel pump running (right-hand rear wheel arch) when it refuses to start? It should whirr when the key is in position II. When was the fuel filter last changed, and what brand?

You might pick up which injector is playing up by waiting till the lumpy idle appears, then unplugging the injectors one by one. The one that doesn’t affect the idle much is the culprit. I’ve got away with this twice now, replacing the suspect with a scrapyard special.

The other common fault is the high pressure regulator O-ring (search on here). Cheap and fairly easy to rule out with replacement.

A tired battery can cause a surprising number of starting problems, too.

Hi,
I’ve put a new battery on,
The diagnostics was carried out when car was running fine, never does it when you want lol,
It’s rather intermittent, when it plays up to start I can here the pump buzzing, and there’s no smoke when it try’s / starts,
When it has cut out whilst driving, there’s no warning, it doesn’t start missing or go lumpy, the engine just stops, no engine management lights, just oil and battery lights, like when you first go to start,
Is there a fuel cut off solenoid ? Could this be failing ?
I did wonder about the fuel filter, but would of thought it would be a more prominent fault ? as why would it pass fuel for a few days then not ?
It’s got to be a few years ago since in was last replaced,
The lumpy idle only seems to last a few seconds then it cuts out, even when you go to rev it to try and clear,
Funny you should mention the crank sensor, as that was the only code on there, as in it said something like excessive crank over ? or something like that, which he took this as when I’m trying to start it when it won’t start ? Would this make it cut out or fail to start ?
So grateful for your reply’s
Many thanks
Rich

That's the clue ! I had a faulty crank sensor and the engine cut at 3,000 rpm due to the ecu removing power to the fuel pump relay. What was the actual fault code??

Changed the sensor (which had come loose, but changed it anyway) and all good.

That's where I'd go with the symptoms you describe. When you have a code it helps to reveal it as you clearly said 'no codes' in your first post.

If you give us all you have it helps us help you.

@andyfreelandy has a point about the crank sensor - certainly worth a look.

A clogged or poor quality fuel filter could be collapsing internally, or putting extra strain on the pump and causing it to fail. If you can hear it running during starting problems, and get good pressure values, then maybe it’s not that.

There’s no stop solenoid, if you mean that. There is a resettable impact sensor behind the engine fuse box, but this would cut the pump.

Excessive injector leakback could be dropping rail pressure and causing failure to start, but probably not cutting out while going. You say there’s no smoke when it finally goes, suggesting fuel starvation, but if there’s no crank signal then the injectors won’t be triggered.

An 06 TD4 which has only done 53k miles shouts short journeys to me. This pushes injector problems up a bit higher.

Three things to do next:
1. Injector leakback test, and an idle drop test when running lumpily.
2. Replace HP pump regulator O ring.
3. Replace crank sensor.

Do a leak back test on the injectors, we had a R40 that was doing the same even though on diagnostics the injectors were within the spec,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281797124034
As already said always worth checking and changing over the O-rings on the HPFP regulator link below cost is minimal.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CP1-Fuel...086831&hash=item3f81a990dc:g:eQIAAOSwEPtZZP3S

Also change the fuel filter which again is minimal cost and as you say your self, it as not been changed for a couple of years, check the fuel rail sensor and its wiring, maybe clean the contacts with switch cleaner.

Thanks everybody for your help, it does seem like fuel starvation tbh,going back to the crank sensor, would this cause fuel starvation, lumpy start and for the engine to suddenly cut out ? sorry if daft question but I’m not into cars ! Boilers and commercial / industrial gas / oil plant is my pleasure,

Eblana said:

Thanks everybody for your help, it does seem like fuel starvation tbh,going back to the crank sensor, would this cause fuel starvation, lumpy start and for the engine to suddenly cut out ? sorry if daft question but I’m not into cars ! Boilers and commercial / industrial gas / oil plant is my pleasure,

Click to expand...

An intermittent crank signal could cause all of those things.

guineafowl21 said:

An intermittent crank signal could cause all of those things.

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Thank you, I’ll try that fist, and yep your correct regarding short journeys also, plus I only use it now and again as use other vehicles, it was the x wife’s choice of car, I wanted disco but she didn’t, she’s gone now and that’s why it doesn’t get much use at all, it can be parked up for months on end tbh,
Cheers
Rich

Would any body have a link to the crank shaft sensor? Are they the same across all td4 S
Many thanks
Rich

andyfreelandy said:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/401447128553

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Thanks Andy,
This might come across as daft, but where do I find the information regarding car details ?
Thanks in advance

Yours is the 314 1st generation Freelander. 359 is the later one 2007 onwards. LN is a generic term for Freelander and whether it has an open back or not doesn't affect the engine!!

This is the key bit....
FOR LAND ROVER FREELANDER
LN Year:01->06 2.0 TD4 Diesel Eng.Code:204D3 SUV/4x4 109bhp Spec: GENUINE QUALITY
LN Year:00->06 2.0 TD4 Diesel Eng.Code:M47 SUV/4x4 112bhp Spec: GENUINE QUALITY

andyfreelandy said:

Yours is the 314 1st generation Freelander. 359 is the later one 2007 onwards. LN is a generic term for Freelander and whether it has an open back or not doesn't affect the engine!!

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Thank you so much, really appreciated

I have never really taken any notice of the difference in the 109 bhp and the 112 bhp how do you tell the difference also Eblana when you have your stoping of the engine sorted put in some injector cleaner into you diesel tank it does wonders

teddywood1 said:

I have never really taken any notice of the difference in the 109 bhp and the 112 bhp how do you tell the difference also Eblana when you have your stoping of the engine sorted put in some injector cleaner into you diesel tank it does wonders

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Hi,
I’ve got some ready to put in could I put in now rather than wait till the issue is sorted ?

It wouldn't hurt to put it in, but my personal take on this is that I don't change anything whilst diagnosing a fault apart from one thing at a time. Then always reinstate the failed component to ensure you've got the problem. This approach ensures you have the right diagnosis.

andyfreelandy said:

It wouldn't hurt to put it in, but my personal take on this is that I don't change anything whilst diagnosing a fault apart from one thing at a time. Then always reinstate the failed component to ensure you've got the problem. This approach ensures you have the right diagnosis.

Click to expand...

Hi,
Yes that’s what I shall do, I’ve ordered the sensor and should arrive next Tuesday,
I’ve had a good google and YouTube, but can’t find where the sensor is located ? Some say below the starter motor and then others say remove the front wheel and splash guards and it’s on the side of the engine ?
Any help much appreciated, mines a auto if that makes any difference ?
Many thanks in advance,
Rich