Starter motor or starter solenoid failure?

After my rebuild the starter was sticking. It would spin but not throw out the bendix. It was only intermittent and improved with a new relay. It has now failed properly. Now I get nothing on the starter when I turn the key. I get all the ignition lights etc and I get a voltage drop when moving the key to the start position but no spin, no noise, no click, nothing. Shorting the starter direct (bypassing the solenoid) the starter spins but does not throw the bendix so I had to bump start it. Is the solenoid and starter separate on a 200tdi? Which one (or both) sounds like it has failed based on the above description.

When the starter spins gear should throw forward



When no power should sit back



Solinoid only powers the starter to spin & throw out the starter gear



This starter is on the floor in the garage unsure of its history or if it’s still alive

dag019 said:

After my rebuild the starter was sticking. It would spin but not throw out the bendix. It was only intermittent and improved with a new relay. It has now failed properly. Now I get nothing on the starter when I turn the key. I get all the ignition lights etc and I get a voltage drop when moving the key to the start position but no spin, no noise, no click, nothing. Shorting the starter direct (bypassing the solenoid) the starter spins but does not throw the bendix so I had to bump start it. Is the solenoid and starter separate on a 200tdi? Which one (or both) sounds like it has failed based on the above description.

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The solenoid is just an electrically operated switch, used because it has to handle currents that a normal switch doesn't like.

So if your starter works when activated with a jump lead, the problem is going to be with the solenoid or the Bendix.

Try cleaning and lubricating the Bendix, and giving the solenoid a good tap with a hammer. Not a sledge, just a one pound engineer's hammer, or similar.

Sounds like the motor to me, possibly a brush, the motors gone soft.
The solenoid is a relay (to all intents and purposes) so you just need to bridge it.

Putting 12V on the tag it should 'click' (close) and spin the motor.
If you put 12V on the motor cable and it spins OK but not via the solenoid, there's the culprit.


You can get a 'rebuild kit for around £10 (RTC4980) or a new starter for circa £80

Take it apart for a look see, dead easy, used to do mine all the time as they filled with muddy water.

Top tip fit the solenoid trigger wire before fitting the starter in place!

The new cheap starters area bit crap quality wise, but they do work and seem to last well.

From the comments above I possibly have two issues. The first being the sticking bendix and the second now being a new failure of the solenoid.
The starter is the one that came with the donor engine so is of unknown provenance to me. I did bench test it before fitting the engine and on initial testing it was not throwing the bendix out and was just spinning. After cleaning and oiling it worked as expected:



On fitting the engine it worked correctly for a while and then once again stopped throwing the bendix, this was still during the rebuild and was solved by replacing the starter relay as suggested by @Hicap phill. This then worked correctly for a while and then once I started driving it it once again began to intermittently not engage but a couple of tries would then see the starter engage.

Now I have nothing when turning the key I am assuming the solenoid has failed and the fact that when bypassing the solenoid the starter just spins but does not engage is back to do with the above issue with the bendix?
If I am going to the effort to remove it i am leaning towards just replacing the lot to get it back on the road especially as nearly everything else on the vehicle is already new after it rebuild. I can then rebuild and repair this one as a spare if I think it is worth it.
Based on @lynall comment regarding quality does anyone have any recommendations for a good quality starter?

After a bit of research for replacement starters I can get:
Aftermarket - new - 90
Hella - new - £138 (From here: LINK not used or heard of them before anyone know if they are a reputable supplier?)
Bosch - recon - £180

Which of the above would people recommend? I am leaning towards the hella but I couldnt justify why.

Sounds like the solenoid is the problem, that was not getting enough current through to flick out the bendix and now not even enough to spin motor.
I was told that a sticking bendix should be cleaned up well but not lubricated as any oil soon attracts more dust making it stick again.

takeapart, new brushes, new solonoid contacts, ceramic grease bendix after rubbing away any rust. job done fr about £40 tops all in. or get a new one! nxt day del( ignore stock image) surcharge is if you dont hand your old one in etc

i fitted a lucas new, in 2012 no probs ever since....

The old one will be rebuilt and then fitted to my series 3 diesel as it is my understanding they do fit and deliver a lot more power than the series one. But the 110 will get a new one just to get me back on the road quicker.

I’ve bought a wosp high-torque starter for my 200Tdi. I’ve yet to fit it but a friend has one on his Landy and is more than happy with it. They’re not cheap though but get good reviews.

tottot said:

I was told that a sticking bendix should be cleaned up well but not lubricated as any oil soon attracts more dust making it stick again.

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I should think that is a theoretical possibility in a dusty climate.

But I was thinking more a quick blast of WD40 on the Bendix thread than slathering it with heavy grease.

I don't understand how @Hicap phill manages to have such clean hands as a Land Rover owner.

Yes I've certainly seen the advice (in Haynes manuals) to keep the starter gear clear of lubricants. A little bit of lubrication doesn't seem to be a problem though, in my experience. Maybe the solution is to adjust the Land Rover so it starts easily, so you don't have to keep churning away for ages before it catches.

Always used either graphite grease or ceramic grease on bendix shaft, just a smear never had a problem.
Can see how a big dollop of lith or moly would not be a good idea or the dreaded Copper Slip (less slip more abrasion) not a good move. I threw out my tub in 1990, i simply have no use for it.

Brown said:

I don't understand how @Hicap phill manages to have such clean hands as a Land Rover owner.

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He has staff and a very competent butler

I bought a tin of copper grease around the time I bought the Land Rover, because I thought it was something you were supposed to have. Now, 11 years later, I realise I haven't used any. I either grease things that need greasing, or I don't.

Knappster said:

I’ve bought a wosp high-torque starter for my 200Tdi. I’ve yet to fit it but a friend has one on his Landy and is more than happy with it. They’re not cheap though but get good reviews.

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for the TD5 you gain .2 Kw from stock, so not worth it even with the waterproof one.
Stock is 2Kw
Maybe makes sense for other def engines etc Just dip the clutch for more starter power pmsl