Series 3 Starter Motor or battery

Morning All,

I have a couple of questions.

My Series 2.25 Petrol took a while to turn over and start, if at all. I have since fitted a brand new and larger battery with 1000 CCA that I had going spare. It has made such a huge difference in starting which is good, but since fitting it, the landy struggles to get to 35-45mph, especially when cold, and a popping kind of sound can be heard.
I will attempt to put the old battery back on but I know it will need to be jump started, to see if the popping sound goes away.
However I hard heard that the old battery may be fine, but the starter motor, that is 44 years old, could be the culprit.
Is there a way to test the starter motor to see if this is the case.
If the time comes and it needs to be removed, is this easy to do, I am still what I would call a novice mechanic, especially on the series 3, as only owned it for a couple of months.
I would rather send mine off to be refurbished rather than buy a new one, again any recommendations for this would be great to if this needs to be done.
Any help would be appreciated.

The battery won't affect the running speed that will be ignition, carburettor or air flow. Probably all three. First to check and set would be points gap and timing.

Change your points and condenser, all of £10 worth of spare parts. A lazy (knackered) starter motor typically develops a slow laboured turn not fast enough to start the ignition, they cost £90 with exchange on the old one £30. Easy to fit. Looks like its your battery n ignition though.

ok thanks for the tips.
Never checked points before so I have to read up on this

You'll need to make sure you order the correct points and condenser, there are various types. Depends on which dizzie you have. Tools required are feeler gauges, medium phillips screwdriver, small long nose pliers, WD40, clean rag, grease and emery paper. If you've got a spare tyre on the bonnet, remove and unclip the support stay for the bonnet (split pin n washer) so that you can lift the bonnet right up resting on the windscreen, so that you have light n space to work. Next, remove the dizzie cap and push it gently to the side. Pull off the rotor arm from the central spindal (black plastic plug thingy with a brass contact face). Put it aside carefully. Next, very carefully unscrew the little nut that's visible on top of the l/h side of the points, which have two low tension terminals underneath. Put the nut aside and be very careful not to drop it into the dizzie. Next, gently pull off the little plastic insulator holding the terminals. Remove the terminals. Next unscrew the points retaining screw which fixes it to the dizzie plate and remove points, again being careful not to drop the screw, put the screw aside. Next, unscrew the retaining screw holding the condenser in position. That's yer old stuff removed.

Before fitting the new points, remove nut and insulator as above. Fit points onto plate with the retaining screw. Fit new condenser into place with retaining screw. Next take the two terminals (one from the new condenser plus other one and place them on the end of the points, the little locating stud. Push the little plastic insulator into position to hold the terminals and then secure it with the little nut (not too much torque just enough to be tight).

Now for the setting. You'll notice that the shaft of the dizzie isn't round, its squarish, with rounded corners. Put the Landy in second gear with the hand brake off, (ideally do this on flat ground). What you are trying to do is rock the vehicle gently so that the dizzie shaft turns fractionally. You must get it to turn onto the apex of one of the corners on the dizzie shaft. There are four corners for four cylinders, doesn't matter which one. Rock it back gently and it should move so that it's in the right position. Now, for the feeler gauge, the points settings on a landy are 0.36-.40mm/ 0.014-0.016inch. Valve/ feeler gauges can be bought at Halfords for diddly, they are compact and fold away. Each gauge is marked on its face with its size, if you get imperial there's a 0.38 guage that's perfect. So, assuming you've got yer gauge ready get your screw driver and gently loosen the points retaining screw so that you can move the points in and out. Simply slip the feeler gauge into the points gap and use the scewdriver to adjust the gap. Take it in and out a few times to be sure. If the points are moving when the guage goes in its a tad too narrow. Once yer happy, tighten up the retaining screw, hey presto you've set the points! Make sure you have got the terminals underneath the insulator touching the metel stud holding the spring. If they are above you'll have a dead short and no spark. Take the emery paper and give the rotor arm brass face a good clean and do like wise with the four contact points inside the dizzie cap and give the cap a good squirt with WD40 and wipe clean. Give the shaft of the dizzie a little bit of grease and pop the rotor arm back in position (it only goes one way). Once done click back on the dizzie cap and fire her up to check its all working. Re-fit the bonnet.

Before you start all this try to read which type of dizzie you have on the outside of the body. Places like Craddocks n Paddocks stock the parts and are quite helpful. There are two types of condenser, one with a long terminal and one with a short. If your points have been on a long time and you get this done you'll notice a big difference in the running. Good luck.

wow thank you for the write up.

I will give this a go hopefully on Friday if its not raining. I have a look at what dizzie I have before i start, hopefully it will still be clear enough to read - fingers are crossed.

Once again thank you

Didn't have time today to have a proper play, but I did put the old back battery on, but the sounds and poor running carried out, so that has ruled out 100%.

I will keep having a play, I did try to read the type of the dizzie, but could not seen anything obvious, its it located anywhere in particular.

Thanks again

Don't even bother replacing points/condenser with new - go electronic. Something like Powerspark is not that much more expensive than new points and condenser, and FAR more likely to be reliable. New condensers - not just for Landies, they're all basically the same - are abysmal quality.

Had a look today at the dizzy, 100% sure that it is a lucas model. Quite corroded where the coil plug goes, but don't think that is the reason behind the poor running. Could not see a part/model number on it that was clear to see.

I did happen to have a lucas condenser for a 1971 Series 3, but the one I have is much larger than the one already fitted, so I am guessing there is more than one type. Picture below shows them next to each other.

Also have noticed on Rimmer Bros site they do two service kits for a Series 3, one designed for fixed points and the other for sliding points. Me being a novice would not know the difference, though reading up its says it may be for a C or D Suffix engine type, is there easy way of checking. I have found out that I have the 8:1 CR 3-bearing engine as it begins 901 and ends with an A.

I had a look at the powerspark which will no doubt be better, but for me personally I want to keep my series 3 as original as possible, being the age of it and not yet been restored, thank you for the suggestion though.

+1 for the electronic ignition, if the funds can stretch to it. When set up properly, starting and running are much improved, and they are mostly a fit and forget thing. Also much less affected by damp/water.
Your picky shows a dizzy that needs to be cleaned thoroughly. Even a new rotor arm and cap will make a difference, and couldn't be easier to fit.

The corrosion will affect running a bit, damp has obviously got in there.

Last couple of days I found time to do some bits, starting with oil change and filters, spark plugs, leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm. But it has no made no difference - BUT today I have learnt that when spark plugs 2 & 3 are unplugged t make no difference to the running of the vehicle . Checked the plugs and they are both dry.

Step me thinks, now is a compression test just in case.

Can't see the points for the rotor arm. Not sure what the difference is between fixed n sliding. The points are fixed to the dizzy plate bu slide to adjust due to the spring. I'll check the part number I think you need.

I got all the correct parts as Paddock Spares were a great help as always. But I think the fault goes beyond the ignition.

Also while driving it home today got 200 yards from home and the engine just cut out and will not start at all, it turns over fine, but will not fire at all. So guessing the compression has gone in a third cylinder now - any other things I can please let me know, as now I can't even drive it

OK, I don't want to sound patronising here, but it might be time to pause and step back from it a bit. Compression doesn't just go, unless a piston holes or a valve head falls off. Lack of compression is only really due to serious internal mechanical problems. If two cylinders of four really had no compression and weren't firing, you would KNOW. The engine would sound terrible, and would be trying to bounce its way out of the wings, whilst barely moving the vehicle.

Stop guessing, and get methodical. Do you have a multimeter? Do you have a pair of pliers with decently insulated handles? Do you have a compression tester?

But that is exactly what it has been doing, the engine sounds rough and popping and pretending to be a kangaroo, and can be felt inside.
The steering wheel and gear stick are vibrating all over the place

Have all the tools apart from the compression tester, though have seen this one
http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-363771/sealey-ct955.html?gclid=CP3ZgK_Ai8kCFSgFwwodqTsG7Q
But I don't know the thread size in the spark plug housing yet, as I like the screw on type rather than the hold in place ones.

I have a compression tester...

and as for refurb place -
burghfield starter & alternator centre
01189832284

1997 Discovery said:

But that is exactly what it has been doing, the engine sounds rough and popping and pretending to be a kangaroo, and can be felt inside.
The steering wheel and gear stick are vibrating all over the place

Click to expand...

And you've been trying to drive it...?

First steps first. Insulated pliers. Put a plug in the end of an HT lead, hold the body of the plug against the cylinder head WITH THE PLIERS, and get somebody to turn the engine over on the starter. Do this at dusk. You should clearly see a spark at the plug. Repeat until you've checked all four. If there's a good bright blue big fat spark on all four, then your problem probably isn't ignition.

TooMany2cvs said:

Don't even bother replacing points/condenser with new - go electronic. Something like Powerspark is not that much more expensive than new points and condenser, and FAR more likely to be reliable. New condensers - not just for Landies, they're all basically the same - are abysmal quality.

Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you on that one I'm afraid: Points ignition is much higher maintainance than electronic but if you do keep it maintained then it's much more reliable. I've been in the trade and had a driving license for 30 years and I've never owned a modern car. Neither have I ever had a breakdown caused by points ignition which is more than I can say for electronic. I fit both types to my customers cars and for me it clearly boils down to this:

If are mechanically competent and like working on cars then have points every time.
If you don't know how to or don't want to work on your car then fit electronic every time.

If you keep driving then eventually your ignition (like everything else) will fail. If you have points and condensor and you know what you are doing then in 20 minutes you will be continuing your journey. If you have electronic then you will be coming home on a trailer.

You can get good quality contact sets, rotor arms, distributor caps and condensors. You just have to know which ones to go for.

Bottom line is that any car of this age can be made to run just great on either points or electronic. It's a personal choice at the end of the day.