Stainless Steel Exhausts

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In message <[email protected]>, steve Taylor
<[email protected]> writes
>Will Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> <http://www.lancre.net/photos/imagefiles/Motorsport/hursthemi.jpg>
>>
>
>What a crazy motor !
>
>Steve
The guy driving it's equally crazy, IIRC he had just turned 65 when I
took the photo in 2003. Super chap though, he really enjoyed putting on
a show for the crowds at Goodwood and was around the car much of the
weekend so plenty of opportunity to chat. But then that's the beauty of
Goodwood, fantastic access to cars and drivers. They've had a fair
selection of Paris-Dakkar vehicles there over the years as well (sort of
makes this a bit more on topic ;-) ).

Will
--
lancre dot net - The personal domain of Will and Cath Wilkinson.
Send e-mail to news dot will at lancre dot net

PGP Fingerprint E089 1736 A023 9E5C AFA3 0B40 E5DC D80A 9E1F D521
Public key can be obtained from ldap://certserver.pgp.com
 
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:06:39 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You want to make the gas flow better. Bigger exhaust and also cut out
>any restrictive bits such as harsh bends.

Partly, and mostly, but not entirely. Improving the flow at the
exhaust is good, but only if you have also gas-flowed the inlet and
exhaust manifolds too (yes, ans perhaps looking at trimming on the
heads themselves to get rid of any stepping where they meet the
manifolds). The science (The little bloke at RPI does this quite
well) is to ensure a good, clean flow throughout the entire process.
Improving the flow at one point is ok, but will only provide marginal
results compared to improving the flow throughout.

Erm, if that makes sense :)

 
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:31:44 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:06:39 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>You want to make the gas flow better. Bigger exhaust and also cut out
>>any restrictive bits such as harsh bends.
>
>Partly, and mostly, but not entirely. Improving the flow at the
>exhaust is good, but only if you have also gas-flowed the inlet and
>exhaust manifolds too (yes, ans perhaps looking at trimming on the
>heads themselves to get rid of any stepping where they meet the
>manifolds). The science (The little bloke at RPI does this quite
>well) is to ensure a good, clean flow throughout the entire process.
>Improving the flow at one point is ok, but will only provide marginal
>results compared to improving the flow throughout.
>
>Erm, if that makes sense :)

It makes sense! - but there seem to be a fair few people with saab
turbo's saying that just improving the exhaust makes a difference.

I don't think that the 'proper' gas-flowing (of both the manifolds and
the head) is quite so important when you have a turbo engine.
Something to do with the forced induction I think. It makes a
difference, but not as significantly as on an n/a engine.

(steve said he was building the exhaust for a 200tdi earlier)

I'm not an expert, but i've been playing with and researching turbo
engines recently. I've got a ported, polished and slightly improved
head ready to go on one when i get round to rebuilding it :) - so i
can put forward an educated opinion at a later date! (until then i
reserve the right to regurgitate things ive read and heard elsewhere!)
 
On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:44:08 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I don't think that the 'proper' gas-flowing (of both the manifolds and
>the head) is quite so important when you have a turbo engine.
>Something to do with the forced induction I think. It makes a
>difference, but not as significantly as on an n/a engine.

I reckon it still makes a difference. The gas flow is gonna be better,
whatever - many modern exhausts are restrictive in order to make 'em quiet,
though.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
 
Tom Woods wrote:

> I don't think that the 'proper' gas-flowing (of both the manifolds and
> the head) is quite so important when you have a turbo engine.
> Something to do with the forced induction I think. It makes a
> difference, but not as significantly as on an n/a engine.
>
> (steve said he was building the exhaust for a 200tdi earlier)
>
> I'm not an expert, but i've been playing with and researching turbo
> engines recently. I've got a ported, polished and slightly improved
> head ready to go on one when i get round to rebuilding it :) - so i
> can put forward an educated opinion at a later date! (until then i
> reserve the right to regurgitate things ive read and heard elsewhere!)


You're right, its the 200Tdi project I'm thinking of. I thought
polishing ports wasn't a good thing, for aerodynamic reasons, the rough
wall REDUCES friction rather than increases it ? Can you "port" a 200TDi
and make a worthwhile improvement I wonder.

Steve
 
On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:57:58 +0100, steve Taylor
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>You're right, its the 200Tdi project I'm thinking of. I thought
>polishing ports wasn't a good thing, for aerodynamic reasons, the rough
>wall REDUCES friction rather than increases it ? Can you "port" a 200TDi
> and make a worthwhile improvement I wonder.

I suspect this is more about turbulence - too clean a gas path on the inlet,
especially in a petrol engine, is supposed to lead to poor mixing. However,
in a diesel, that may be less relevant.

however, matching ports so there's no big step in the side would be helpful,
I think.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:31:44 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
made me spill my meths when he wrote:

>Partly, and mostly, but not entirely. Improving the flow at the
>exhaust is good, but only if you have also gas-flowed the inlet and
>exhaust manifolds too

I see a niche market for snake oil magnets on the exhaust manifold
here. <turns to ebay...>
--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
 
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:57:58 +0100, steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> I don't think that the 'proper' gas-flowing (of both the manifolds and
>> the head) is quite so important when you have a turbo engine.
>> Something to do with the forced induction I think. It makes a
>> difference, but not as significantly as on an n/a engine.
>>
>> (steve said he was building the exhaust for a 200tdi earlier)
>>
>> I'm not an expert, but i've been playing with and researching turbo
>> engines recently. I've got a ported, polished and slightly improved
>> head ready to go on one when i get round to rebuilding it :) - so i
>> can put forward an educated opinion at a later date! (until then i
>> reserve the right to regurgitate things ive read and heard elsewhere!)
>
>
>You're right, its the 200Tdi project I'm thinking of. I thought
>polishing ports wasn't a good thing, for aerodynamic reasons, the rough
>wall REDUCES friction rather than increases it ? Can you "port" a 200TDi
> and make a worthwhile improvement I wonder.

I slightly lied about the polishing bit. He's cleaned it up but still
left it with a rough finish, as he (the engine guy) said the same as
you - that this was better.
I trust the engine guy as he's been doing it for years!

 
so steve Taylor was, like...

>You're right, its the 200Tdi project I'm thinking of. I thought
> polishing ports wasn't a good thing, for aerodynamic reasons, the
> rough wall REDUCES friction rather than increases it ? Can you "port"
> a 200TDi and make a worthwhile improvement I wonder.

That's right - a slight roughness to the surface produces turbulence which
(for reasons my O-level physics didn't cover) actually reduces friction.
It's the reason that golf balls have dimples.

Shaping ports to manifolds (inlet and exhaust) is worth doing, gives the gas
a fair chance of shooting though without banging its head on the step.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
Richard Brookman wrote:


> Shaping ports to manifolds (inlet and exhaust) is worth doing, gives the gas
> a fair chance of shooting though without banging its head on the step.

Any idea if 200Tdi's need this kind of treatment as a matter of course
Rich ?

Steve
 
so Steve Taylor was, like...
> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>
>> Shaping ports to manifolds (inlet and exhaust) is worth doing, gives
>> the gas a fair chance of shooting though without banging its head on
>> the step.
>
> Any idea if 200Tdi's need this kind of treatment as a matter of course
> Rich ?
>
> Steve

Not specifically, but any engine will benefit from what is effectively
hand-finishing a product which is fairly crude from the factory. With the
2-stroke bike engines I used to work on, the effect can be dramatic. With a
slow-revving lump like the Tdi, probably not as much, but it surely wouldn't
do any harm.

Whether it would be worth the effort, I can't say.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
Well, after a bit of searching and ringing around I went for the large bore
twin pipe system from Rimmer Brothers. Considering a Land Rover main dealer
wanted almost £700 for a mild steel exhaust I consider £569 for a stainless
system with a lifetime guarantee money well spent. It's all a bit bright
and bling for me (I like understated cars) so I'll be painting the rear
silencer boxes black over the next couple of nights. Now just got to find
time to fit it!

Here's hoping the burble at tickover with this system is as nice as my TVR
Griff 500 (yes, I know what I said about understated cars!).

Regards

Alan

"AC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I need to replace the exhaust on my 1998 Range Rover 4.6 HSE and I want to
> fit a stainless steel system. I've looked at Rimmer Bros and RPI
> engineering (amongst others) and all have highly polished bling boy-racer
> style tailpipes. Does anyone know of a heat resistant black paint
> (preferably spray) that will adhere to polished stainless steel? Does
> anyone have experience of the stainless systems from either of these
> suppliers? From their website pictures they look to be identical systems.
> Does anyone have any experience of the quad pipe systems?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Alan C
>


 
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:49:37 +0100, "AC" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Here's hoping the burble at tickover with this system is as nice as my TVR
>Griff 500 (yes, I know what I said about understated cars!).

The burble from Grumble is music to the ears for a petrolhead - better
than the Tuscan, or my Seven... (yes, yes,yes, I'll get mi overalls)

 
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