Some Off Road Action

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Alibro

Well-Known Member
Posts
7,024
Location
Northern Ireland
For a so called "soft roader" this shows what a standard Freelander is capable of with only off road tyres added.

No it isn't as capable as a car with locking diffs but it does pretty well.
I had a go at this a couple of years ago and had a similar experience.
 
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They are very capable Ali. I think the FL1 is a bit better off road than the FL2 where the basic AWD system is concerned, although the TC system on the FL2 is superior.
I believe VCU is capable of transferring more torque to the rear than the torque limited early Haldex Gen3, which has a max torque limit of 500Nm.
The later Haldex Gen4 had a 1500Nm limit, which is a marked improvement.
The VCU will transfer torque based on the rotational differences between the front and rear props, although I'm not sure if there's a finite torque limit, but I suspect it exceeds the limit imposed by the clutch pack in the Haldex unit.
 
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They weren't really off road tyres - more tractor tyres. :D

I recon that fella had the 3 amigos - cos there was no noticable traction control kicking in and lots of wheels spinning. The first and last bits showed that most - what happened at the end there - it was like the shallowest of axle twisters and the car look fecked - like it had been tied to the tree behind it!

He'd have made his job easier if he'd taken the tow bar off. I'm sure he was grounding on it and losing traction at the back.
 
The filming was mainly from the back, you couldn't really see what the fronts were doing a lot of the time.

Having said that, you're probably right that if he did a 1WUT - it would probably have returned a time of 2 hours :D
 
Almost certainly right about the three amigos, in my own experiences off-road the TC starts modulating the brakes on the spinning wheel(s), and finding grip where other vehicles might not. Essentially it's actually easier to off-road a stock or mildly modded (mud tyres, ally sump guard and steel tubular "exhaust guard" - not even lifted at this time) freelander, than the unmodified manual discovery 300tdi which was on BFG all terrains.

I'll preface this by saying that part of the different experience might have been down to the tyres, as the freelander was on Khumo KL71 full mud tyres, which were surprisingly soft compound and extremely grippy on hard surfaces, whereas the disco was on the original BFG all terrains which are a harder tyre and offer less grip than you'd expect on rocks and roads. But tyres aside, I suspect the electronics in the hippo had a huge part to play in the differences between the two experiences elaborated on in the paragraph below.

There were times I could get the freelander into positions where the disco couldn't go, in particular there was a ledge on one of my trails that I could manoeuvre the Freelander to damn near touching, then apply full lock towards the ledge, then creep towards it and once the tyre had touched the vertical face of the ledge gun the throttle, and it'd pull it's front right wheel up onto the ledge, I could then get the back right onto the ledge, wind on a lot of right-hand-lock and the front left would climb the ledge. Because the freelander is an automatic, this was simply done by keeping the throttle in and the vehicle would use the ABS to shuffle power around to find grip, and climb the ledge, without fail.

The disco, on the other hand, would require a bit more effort and would only maybe manage this manoeuvre, approach it, in low box, Centre Dif Lock in, position it the same way, and it might do what the Freelander did, or there was an equal chance that it would start spinning wheels when the front right contacted the vertical face, of the ledge. With it not having the electronics / traction control, if the disco had a spinning wheel, with CDL in that axle was neutered, stuck, but the freelander used the ABS to give the offending spinning wheel a reprimand that says "Hoy! stop spinning!" and the excess power is transferred to the other wheels intelligently putting the grunt where you've got the grip. The result was this one section where the freelander could always clear a knee high ledge, but the disco might get stuck at it.

Coming on this trail the other way, the freelander still had the advantage, it's got a two inch longer wheelbase than the disco has, and a significantly shorter, like nigh on nonexistent, rear overhang. Effectively being a bob-tailed vehicle, the hippo could descend off that ledge fairly cleanly, and do so attacking the descent "head on". Whereas the disco could, by virtue of it's long overhang, get itself stuck - or at least try to hang up on the tankguard / chassis rails / towbar. So I'd have to "walk it down" one wheel at a time and once the front axle was down I'd be committed and would have to gun it a little to be sure to have enough momentum to pull the back end along if it was scraping the ledge.

That was a long time ago, the 300tdi was since sold on to a mate, and the trail now has a fencepost right in the way of clearing that ledge, but the fact remains that our traction control cannot be underestimated.
 
Almost certainly right about the three amigos, in my own experiences off-road the TC starts modulating the brakes on the spinning wheel(s), and finding grip where other vehicles might not. Essentially it's actually easier to off-road a stock or mildly modded (mud tyres, ally sump guard and steel tubular "exhaust guard" - not even lifted at this time) freelander, than the unmodified manual discovery 300tdi which was on BFG all terrains.

I'll preface this by saying that part of the different experience might have been down to the tyres, as the freelander was on Khumo KL71 full mud tyres, which were surprisingly soft compound and extremely grippy on hard surfaces, whereas the disco was on the original BFG all terrains which are a harder tyre and offer less grip than you'd expect on rocks and roads. But tyres aside, I suspect the electronics in the hippo had a huge part to play in the differences between the two experiences elaborated on in the paragraph below.

There were times I could get the freelander into positions where the disco couldn't go, in particular there was a ledge on one of my trails that I could manoeuvre the Freelander to damn near touching, then apply full lock towards the ledge, then creep towards it and once the tyre had touched the vertical face of the ledge gun the throttle, and it'd pull it's front right wheel up onto the ledge, I could then get the back right onto the ledge, wind on a lot of right-hand-lock and the front left would climb the ledge. Because the freelander is an automatic, this was simply done by keeping the throttle in and the vehicle would use the ABS to shuffle power around to find grip, and climb the ledge, without fail.

The disco, on the other hand, would require a bit more effort and would only maybe manage this manoeuvre, approach it, in low box, Centre Dif Lock in, position it the same way, and it might do what the Freelander did, or there was an equal chance that it would start spinning wheels when the front right contacted the vertical face, of the ledge. With it not having the electronics / traction control, if the disco had a spinning wheel, with CDL in that axle was neutered, stuck, but the freelander used the ABS to give the offending spinning wheel a reprimand that says "Hoy! stop spinning!" and the excess power is transferred to the other wheels intelligently putting the grunt where you've got the grip. The result was this one section where the freelander could always clear a knee high ledge, but the disco might get stuck at it.

Coming on this trail the other way, the freelander still had the advantage, it's got a two inch longer wheelbase than the disco has, and a significantly shorter, like nigh on nonexistent, rear overhang. Effectively being a bob-tailed vehicle, the hippo could descend off that ledge fairly cleanly, and do so attacking the descent "head on". Whereas the disco could, by virtue of it's long overhang, get itself stuck - or at least try to hang up on the tankguard / chassis rails / towbar. So I'd have to "walk it down" one wheel at a time and once the front axle was down I'd be committed and would have to gun it a little to be sure to have enough momentum to pull the back end along if it was scraping the ledge.

That was a long time ago, the 300tdi was since sold on to a mate, and the trail now has a fencepost right in the way of clearing that ledge, but the fact remains that our traction control cannot be underestimated.
I agree that TC is great - but great for specific use. The way it was implemented in D2 to replace the locking diff was laughable - it cant be used for extended periods of time or it overheats and you're stuck, or tumbling down a slope to oblivion when the HDC overheats.
 
Almost certainly right about the three amigos, in my own experiences off-road the TC starts modulating the brakes on the spinning wheel(s), and finding grip where other vehicles might not. Essentially it's actually easier to off-road a stock or mildly modded (mud tyres, ally sump guard and steel tubular "exhaust guard" - not even lifted at this time) freelander, than the unmodified manual discovery 300tdi which was on BFG all terrains.

I'll preface this by saying that part of the different experience might have been down to the tyres, as the freelander was on Khumo KL71 full mud tyres, which were surprisingly soft compound and extremely grippy on hard surfaces, whereas the disco was on the original BFG all terrains which are a harder tyre and offer less grip than you'd expect on rocks and roads. But tyres aside, I suspect the electronics in the hippo had a huge part to play in the differences between the two experiences elaborated on in the paragraph below.

There were times I could get the freelander into positions where the disco couldn't go, in particular there was a ledge on one of my trails that I could manoeuvre the Freelander to damn near touching, then apply full lock towards the ledge, then creep towards it and once the tyre had touched the vertical face of the ledge gun the throttle, and it'd pull it's front right wheel up onto the ledge, I could then get the back right onto the ledge, wind on a lot of right-hand-lock and the front left would climb the ledge. Because the freelander is an automatic, this was simply done by keeping the throttle in and the vehicle would use the ABS to shuffle power around to find grip, and climb the ledge, without fail.

The disco, on the other hand, would require a bit more effort and would only maybe manage this manoeuvre, approach it, in low box, Centre Dif Lock in, position it the same way, and it might do what the Freelander did, or there was an equal chance that it would start spinning wheels when the front right contacted the vertical face, of the ledge. With it not having the electronics / traction control, if the disco had a spinning wheel, with CDL in that axle was neutered, stuck, but the freelander used the ABS to give the offending spinning wheel a reprimand that says "Hoy! stop spinning!" and the excess power is transferred to the other wheels intelligently putting the grunt where you've got the grip. The result was this one section where the freelander could always clear a knee high ledge, but the disco might get stuck at it.

Coming on this trail the other way, the freelander still had the advantage, it's got a two inch longer wheelbase than the disco has, and a significantly shorter, like nigh on nonexistent, rear overhang. Effectively being a bob-tailed vehicle, the hippo could descend off that ledge fairly cleanly, and do so attacking the descent "head on". Whereas the disco could, by virtue of it's long overhang, get itself stuck - or at least try to hang up on the tankguard / chassis rails / towbar. So I'd have to "walk it down" one wheel at a time and once the front axle was down I'd be committed and would have to gun it a little to be sure to have enough momentum to pull the back end along if it was scraping the ledge.

That was a long time ago, the 300tdi was since sold on to a mate, and the trail now has a fencepost right in the way of clearing that ledge, but the fact remains that our traction control cannot be underestimated.

I only had two off road days in Freelanders, the first in a standard 1.8 K series on standard road tyres and the second in a lifted TD4 on All terrain tyres.
The standard car worked well but had problems with ground clearance in rutted tracks. The lifted car had no such issues and while all four wheels were on the ground it was great, getting through tracks as well as any other car. It was only when one front and one rear wheel were off the ground that it struggled. Lack of low range was also an issue.
 
When offroading, the lack of low range on a manual hippo prompts the user to have to slip the clutch, see all the times the driver in the video stalls, but the auto allows you to creep. Unfortunately, the payback is you are reliant on HDC for steep descents, and there can be issues with that. I'm lucky enough for all the off roading I've done, my hippo has never had any of the problems gel mentions, but I don't know if that's down to my good fortune, or a difference in the system from D2 to FL1?

I've also got a (mothballed) "200 series" v8 Discovery 1 with "all the toys" 3" suspension lift kit, spring retention kit (as opposed to spring dislocation cones), castor correcting and cranked arms, adjustable panhard rod, tank guard, cut out arches with +2" extensions, heavy duty bumpers, snorkel, extended breathers, roof spotlight bar, winch, 265/75/16 Mud Tyres, "24 spline" axles with diff guards. This will probably get the Gwynn Lewis bullet proof diff pans welded onto the axles, and Ashcroft LSD's put into it in the future, but even with the LSD's I'll still be slightly envious of the freelander's electronics.
 
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