SOLVED: TD5 starting probs (at whits end)

Thanks to all that replied. Thanks 1988Smithy for your kind offer too. But before I put anyone to too much trouble, I have a plan of action thanks to your suggestions. Voltage drop test / new battery / eliminate starter (speed / interference) / crank sensor (on order) and wiring to it / earth wires.
I'll report back on progress.

MrWorf said:

Thanks to all that replied. Thanks 1988Smithy for your kind offer too. But before I put anyone to too much trouble, I have a plan of action thanks to your suggestions. Voltage drop test / new battery / eliminate starter (speed / interference) / crank sensor (on order) and wiring to it / earth wires.
I'll report back on progress.

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the fact youve replaced parts doesnt mean that issue is fixed.also what position are the pipes connected to filter head and which connector is air bleed in, if you undo the bung on bottom of fuel filter and switch ignition on does fuel pour out in a fast smooth stream

James, fuel flow to filter - another thing to try - Thanks.
The bleed valve I changed was facing rear and furthest off side (nearer me than the chassis rail).
I believe Land rover man also replaced rear facing near-side valve with a recognised modified replacement.
(Not 100% sure on the position of that one - I wasn't there when he did it).

MrWorf said:

James, fuel flow to filter - another thing to try - Thanks.
The bleed valve I changed was facing rear and furthest off side (nearer me than the chassis rail).
I believe Land rover man also replaced rear facing near-side valve with a recognised modified replacement.
(Not 100% sure on the position of that one - I wasn't there when he did it).

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the other valve fits in nearest chassis front, air bleed is in rear/ outer,ive had some with pipes connected wrongly

I feel your pain. 2000 td5 110, recently gone on a galvanised chassis always always started fine.
One day a month ago very lumpy starting and turnover but picked up after a few seconds. Following day turned over but just wouldn’t catch.
Read on here about crank position sensor so gave it a good wiggle, ( can kneel on engine cover and reach down to it ). Made no difference.
Thought it might be a loom problem - is getting old and brittle now, but traced it all back to the bulkhead with no apparent abrasions. Still wouldn’t catch.
Checked for oil in the ECU... yes some there, but haven’t they all?
Went back the following day and re-checked all the connectors on the loom, pulling pushing wiggling and hey presto started fine with a big cloud of smoke.
At the time I’ve almost wished it hadn’t because I wasn’t really sure what exactly I had done to it and what if it happens again when I’m further from home - should I just get a new loom ? ££££’s noooo

But reading this I think it was the Engine earth to chassis. One of the last things I had worried before it started up was one of the connectors on the bottom offside of the engine, accessed by lying underneath.
Hasn’t even stuttered since, and reading this it now seems to make sense.. I hope .... when it happens again I will go there first ....

Before you spend too much money trying to rectify this problem get an electronic compression test done...

1988smithy said:

When it's cranking but not starting do you get any lights missing on dash and maybe fuel temp shoots up to the red?

Edit typo, coolant temp gauge, not fuel

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Hi 1988smithy, I've made some headway today. Got it starting more reliably after changing the crank sensor and trying to clean the connector as best I can. But your question led me being more observant when it's cranking. Yes I do get some funny dash behaviour when it's cranking and not starting. I think its the fuel level gauge that just bottoms out to zero and then pops back up again when you stop cranking. Your question seems like it might be leading somewhere - What might this be a sign of ? It's still not predictable. sometimes it's a 3 second start, and others more like 8 or so seconds if it's going to go at all. Feels like I'm nearly there but not quite.
(I notice I have a diesel leak now from where the fuel line enters the cylinder head. (the pressure regulator I think) I'm hoping this is just a gasket I need. It's one of the things Land Rover man changed in an attempt to fix the problem.

Dibdab said:

I feel your pain. 2000 td5 110, recently gone on a galvanised chassis always always started fine.
One day a month ago very lumpy starting and turnover but picked up after a few seconds. Following day turned over but just wouldn’t catch.
Read on here about crank position sensor so gave it a good wiggle, ( can kneel on engine cover and reach down to it ). Made no difference.
Thought it might be a loom problem - is getting old and brittle now, but traced it all back to the bulkhead with no apparent abrasions. Still wouldn’t catch.
Checked for oil in the ECU... yes some there, but haven’t they all?
Went back the following day and re-checked all the connectors on the loom, pulling pushing wiggling and hey presto started fine with a big cloud of smoke.
At the time I’ve almost wished it hadn’t because I wasn’t really sure what exactly I had done to it and what if it happens again when I’m further from home - should I just get a new loom ? ££££’s noooo

But reading this I think it was the Engine earth to chassis. One of the last things I had worried before it started up was one of the connectors on the bottom offside of the engine, accessed by lying underneath.
Hasn’t even stuttered since, and reading this it now seems to make sense.. I hope .... when it happens again I will go there first ....

Click to expand...

Thanks Dibdab - I'll be under it tomorrow looking for that ! Thanks.

EeEk said:

A td5 only needs the crank signal to start.

Manual or auto?
If its manual can you bump start it /tow start it and see if it fires straight away....then fit a starter motor
If its auto.......fit a starter motor anyway.... its interference from the starter corrupting the crank signal.
Your easy start is similar as it is the fuel with no injectors having to work...and as it fired on easy start you let the key go ...the starter stops turning....the crank signal is not corrupt now so the pcm starts firing the injectors

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+1 wot he said!

EeEk said:

A td5 only needs the crank signal to start.

Manual or auto?
If its manual can you bump start it /tow start it and see if it fires straight away....then fit a starter motor
If its auto.......fit a starter motor anyway.... its interference from the starter corrupting the crank signal.
Your easy start is similar as it is the fuel with no injectors having to work...and as it fired on easy start you let the key go ...the starter stops turning....the crank signal is not corrupt now so the pcm starts firing the injectors

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Thank you EeEk. If I can get it off the narrow road I live on (save blocking traffic and on the hill, I'm gonna give this a go. Certainly will rule in or out the starter causing a carrupt signal - Thank you.

MrWorf said:

Hi 1988smithy, I've made some headway today. Got it starting more reliably after changing the crank sensor and trying to clean the connector as best I can. But your question led me being more observant when it's cranking. Yes I do get some funny dash behaviour when it's cranking and not starting. I think its the fuel level gauge that just bottoms out to zero and then pops back up again when you stop cranking. Your question seems like it might be leading somewhere - What might this be a sign of ? It's still not predictable. sometimes it's a 3 second start, and others more like 8 or so seconds if it's going to go at all. Feels like I'm nearly there but not quite.
(I notice I have a diesel leak now from where the fuel line enters the cylinder head. (the pressure regulator I think) I'm hoping this is just a gasket I need. It's one of the things Land Rover man changed in an attempt to fix the problem.

Click to expand...

Fuel level gauge dropping could be faulty sender on pump, but you've had a new pump haven't you? As @jamesmartin said though, new parts don't mean working properly.

Did land rover specialist change fuel pressure regulator then? If so I'd take it back if its leaking and get it sorted. Double check, push/pull on all the fuel connectors as one of them might be loose.

R.e dash, as others have said I'd be inclined to think a bad earth or electrical interference.

You're getting there I think. If it's better after cps change, the starter would be my next victim.

Unfortunately you're at the point of going down the rabbit hole due to amount of parts been changed, common dilemma with td5

Well I got my car back from having the diesel leak fixed.
Twice now at sub zero temperatures it's started immediately, hardly get to hear the starter motor kick in !
But then, once it's warm, it refused to start at all. Just endless cranking. But the fact that I've achieved some improvement by replacing the crank sensor makes me think I'm on the right track.
Also given the advice from members of this forum, I've parked it on a hill, and having tested it was refusing to start with the key, I've turned the ignition on, allowed it to gently roll down the hill and successfully bump started it repeatedly at the first sign of a biting point of the clutch ! (This happens even when the engine is at full operating temperature).
As previously stated here, this would point to the starter causing the crank sensor signal to be corrupted.
Tomorrow, I'm going to try shielding the wires from the crank sensor with tin foil and failing that (or aswell as), order a new starter.
I'll keep this thread updated in the hope I eventually fix it.

No need to buy a new starter yet. We had the same issue on my son's 1999 D90 TD5. We pulled the starter off, opened up the solenoid and cleaned the contacts with a dremel. Started first time. Then ordered a starter rebuild kit (£15) and fixed it properly a couple of weeks later.

Si Click said:

No need to buy a new starter yet. We had the same issue on my son's 1999 D90 TD5. We pulled the starter off, opened up the solenoid and cleaned the contacts with a dremel. Started first time. Then ordered a starter rebuild kit (£15) and fixed it properly a couple of weeks later.

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yep solenoid rebuild kit is all thats required, the actual staters are all good! 60 min job all in.

Si Click said:

No need to buy a new starter yet. We had the same issue on my son's 1999 D90 TD5. We pulled the starter off, opened up the solenoid and cleaned the contacts with a dremel. Started first time. Then ordered a starter rebuild kit (£15) and fixed it properly a couple of weeks later.

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Another brilliant piece of advice - Thank you Si Click. Blimey I hope this works - All hopes are on some form of electrical interference / bad earth etc. No more money to throw at it since forking out for the new chassis. Failing this, it's destined to be a flint-stones solution

Si Click said:

No need to buy a new starter yet. We had the same issue on my son's 1999 D90 TD5. We pulled the starter off, opened up the solenoid and cleaned the contacts with a dremel. Started first time. Then ordered a starter rebuild kit (£15) and fixed it properly a couple of weeks later.

Click to expand...

Hi Si Click.
Well all my hopes are on this solenoid being the root cause. The kit arrived today.
I've eliminated the earth problem as I've rigged up a jump lead direct from the engine to the battery - no better.
I've also proven (As recommended on here) that it jump starts perfectly even when hot which is when my starting issue is usually at its worst.
I hardly feel the clutch biting and the engine's running.
So given a decent weather day - Saturday is D-Day. Here's hoping.
Thanks again for the tip.

Fingers crossed mate.

An update from way beyond my tether and my rag's been lost some time ago.
Earths checked by means of voltage drop testing - 0.2volts from engine casing / starter casing / ECU etc.
Solenoid kit installed (new copper contacts) - the old ones were paper thin and pitted.
Contacts to Crank sensor and ECU and injector loom cleaned with contact cleaner.
Continuity tested the wires from Crank sensor to ECU.
If anything it's worse now.
Cranks slower than before. (New battery and or old one with full charge).
However I can report the following symptoms which might give someone on here a clue as to what the hell is wrong.
When cranking, Voltage drops across battery terminals to between 8 and 9 volts.
So I've ordered a new starter motor.
BUT ALSO, there is a continuous clicking (relay noise) from in the panel above the transmission tunnel in the cab.
And the fuel gauge still keeps dropping out to zero and flicking up again while cranking.
Do you guys think the starter motor would cause those symptoms, or are they an indicator of something more obscure ?
I really am starting to think it's God playing a hand in this.

Could well be starter motor, i think you need to have a look and find which relay is making a noise too. Does it only do it whilst cranking?

Yes Kev12. It only does it while cranking.