Freelander 1 SOLVED: td4 " P1190 Governor fuel plausibility deviation at high speed ".

EDIT: 21st Dec.'21 .. in short ..
the cause be a faulty high-pressure fuel pump

now replaced 'n all's well
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hi
bit of help needed here pleez

engine fuel issue ..
hawkeye sais .. P1190 Governor / fuel plausibility deviation at high (engine) speed

does "Governor" relate to the h.p.fuel pump regulator ????
and could it relate to the fuel rail sensor ???

symptoms:
last friday went to up-gear going uphill .. it will normaly take said grade in 4th easily
but had no response from go-pedal and had to drop a gear .. to 3rd
didn't drive it again 'till today ..

today it were down on acceleration although if i didn't ask to much by the way of pressing the go-pedal
it made it ok to 65mph .. just took longer than usual
and mid journey the engine dash light came on
stopped in a layby and hooked up the hawkeye and read fault codes
( all other fuel live readings were ok .. high pressure .. low pressure .. etc )

hawkeye had some trouble connecting at first ..
but did so once the engine were shut down ..
i cleared the fault codes and drove it gently back home
the engine dash light did not come back on ..
still felt a bit unresponsive if i tried to accelerate ..

the other symptom be a slight jerkiness on part go-pedal
( that it never normaly does )
and a slight dieseling sound on part go-pedal

replaced 1 year ago / 10k miles :
h.p.pump/regulator
l.p.pump
f.filter
f.rail sensor and harness
( when that work were done
( the 1st hp.pump / regulator failed .. brand new unit
( it were a sticking regulator
( and the symptom were .. would start ok but died as soon as the go pedal were touched

there's no smoking from the exhaust that i can see
engine fire up ok .. on the button so to speak ..
there's no fuel leaking anywhere
idle is fine

so just wondering what the "governor" is referring to ? ( the hp.regulator ? )
and could the issue be a bad connection on the fuel rail sensor harness ?
( heat and humidity playing a part here ?
( as last friday were right hot and humid ..
i aim to clean the related plug/socket as soon as the motor has cooled down

the other thing that happened ..
when i reconnected my 'scangauge' to the in cab ecu socket
it refused to turn on .. dead as a dodo all the way home ..

cheers for any help with this ..

~~~~~~~~~~
{ EDIT }
re: the P1195 code ..
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...h-speed-p1195-code.362488/page-4#post-5177809
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

~ S ~

ok .. done a bit of web searching

from my prev. engine issue thread
and the cause were a sticking hp.pump regulator

hawkeye codes read:
P1190 fuel pressure plausibility
regulator [ .. ]
P1190 valve sticking

so "governor" must mean something else
~~~~~~~~~~

saw one other thread regarding the same hawkey code i got today
issue turned out to be injectors
but the same driver had far worse symptoms
very hard to start ..
rough idling .. dieseling at higher go-pedal pressure
jerkiness throughout the rev range

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the pump you replace was a cheap one or more expensive , the reason is the cheaper ones usually last about a year or about 10,000 miles

I seem to remember that issue has come up before. I'm sure it was the pump that time.

the pump you replace was a cheap one or more expensive

Click to expand...

cheers Teddy
no .. both pumps oem fitted by a LR dealership
in fact they refused to fit the oem l.p.pump i had with me
( despite both being from the same manufacturer )
~~~~~~
but if the 1st 'new' regulator on their HP pump were faulty when new
who's to say the replacement be ok
~~~~~
both hp.pressure and l.p. pressure were ok in the live readout
~~`
cheer for reply
~ S ~

I seem to remember that issue has come up before. I'm sure it was the pump that time.

Click to expand...

have read this :
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/p1190-fault-longer-starting-and-surging.335314/

and this ( so far ):
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/103889-td4-p1190-fuel-rail-pressure-plausibility/

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it could be an injector i guess ..
( as it occured when the engine were up to temp
( not before ..
my injectors do have 194k miles on them
i should try a leak back test i suppose
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
be just weird that the surging only occurs at minimum go-pedal
and no huge amount of 'dieseling ' ( knocking noise ) .. just a tad ..
and that's only on part go pedal as well
~~~~~
the only deviation from my normal routine was to fill up
at the esso station .. rather than always at a particular texaco station
and i alway add 'diesel rhino' to a 'regular diesel' mix
~~~~~~~~~``
i just wish i knew what the hawkeye be referring to as the 'governor'
an ecu calculation section maybe ?
~~~~~~~
~ S ~

what i'm going to do be:
clean all the fuel rail harness plug/socket .. check wiring with a multimeter ..
and drain the sedimenter ..
and do some more live readings .. maybe when ambient temps and humidity go down
reluctant to drive it at moment in case it breaks down altogether ..
don't feel like going thru another 'recovery' .. especially with dog on board
~~~~~~`

I believe a lack of power should be seen as an improvement in reliability as the engine wishes to emulate an L Series

I know all these clues point to fuel, and that is almost certainly the area of the fault, however, it might be worth simply disconnecting the MAF and see if that changes things. I had a Disco (and it was V8 not diesel) that started randomly hunting at low revs. Garages were wanting to strip all sorts down and undertake very invasive work on the engine - but after my brother and me stuck our heads under the bonnet and scratched our heads for a bit we (actually he!) determined it was the MAF - or rather the electrical connector/plug on the MAF/loom that was the fault. Wiggling it to reseat it would stop the hunting.

From what has been said on here, it appears that if there are problems with the MAF on TD4s, it can be unplugged and the ECU will run on a default that actually runs the engine well.

I believe a lack of power should be seen as an improvement in reliability as the engine wishes to emulate an L Series

Click to expand...

always look on the bright side of life .. huh .. .. :-]
the whole worlds falling apart .. m' hippo just be following suite ..
`````````````````````
yeah .. i'll check the maf as well .. although it were replaced with a real boche job not long back
could be dodgy electrical connection ..
`````
my viking runes are sayin' it's the fuel rail sensor wiring ..
but i've got a horrible feeling it'll be an injector .. or 2 ..
.. the common theme is ambient heat ..
dunno .. i'll do what i can ..
about time i did an injector leak back test anyway .. given their age ..
dumping a good fuel additive in might have helped ..
but they can't last forever
```
whatever the case .. i'll report on the cause when i find it ..
in the meantime it'll be ocado food deliveries 'n local dog walks
```
`s`

hd3 said:

always look on the bright side of life .. huh .. .. :-]
the whole worlds falling apart .. m' hippo just be following suite ..
`````````````````````
yeah .. i'll check the maf as well .. although it were replaced with a real boche job not long back
could be dodgy electrical connection ..
`````
my viking runes are sayin' it's the fuel rail sensor wiring ..
but i've got a horrible feeling it'll be an injector .. or 2 ..
.. the common theme is ambient heat ..
dunno .. i'll do what i can ..
about time i did an injector leak back test anyway .. given their age ..
dumping a good fuel additive in might have helped ..
but they can't last forever
```
whatever the case .. i'll report on the cause when i find it ..
in the meantime it'll be ocado food deliveries 'n local dog walks
```
`s`

Click to expand...

If it is the injectors, it appears they are not cheap and a nightmare to purchase - are they really "reconditioned"?

However, there is a thread on here someone put up where they reconditioned the injectors themselves. It sounds like it wasn't to much of a difficult exercise and the results were great.

no update yet ;-/

just moved hippo from down the road to outside my house
so be easier to work on
started on the button .. no smoke .. no roughness .. no diesel knock noise
( and the day i stopped in the lay-by had no problem re-starting the engine
( 'n going by other posts .. hard starting when hot be 1 symptom of a knackered injector

i also looked into the temp. range of contralube-770 ..
as i've got that smeared on all important electrical connectors
that came up as -40c to 130c

thinking i terms of under bonnet heat buildup

1st day the issue happened .. engine coolant temp read 90c
air intake was 35c ..
my intake tract and a.i.t. sensor be insulated from engine bay heat
if it weren't .. i'd expect the a.i.t. to read a lot higher
( i.e. going by prev. experience when the intake tract was stock )
as is .. it usually runs close to outside ambient temps ..
given the ambient humidity on the day .. and ambient heat temp.
i'm guessing the ambient air had very little effect on cooling down the engine bay

am now thinking of the possibility that the synergy2 microprocessor maybe overheated
and couldn't keep up with the demand .. as i normaly have it on '10'
( that's fuelling and maf-map at it's highest setting )
the module is situated on top of the ecu box ..
the ecu does have an internal cooling fan a.f.a.i.k.
but not the synergy2 module ..
on the way back home i'd turned the synergy setting down
so as not to demand so much fuel
( and it ran ok .. no more fault codes came up )

just had a look at microprocessor operating temps via google
the engine bay heat must have been way over the top end of the range

just thinking out aloud here ) as to possibilities
as well as checking prices on injectors 'n leak back kits ..
while waiting for a delivery of wd40-specialist contact cleaner
( as i'm going to clean all related connectors as a precaution )

just glad for now ambient temps have cooled down

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a.t.b.
~ S ~

spent this arvo. cleaning the fuel rail sensor harness connections
checked inside the ecu box .. the harness pin connections
cleaned the injector plugs ..
( 2 weren't fully clipped on thanx to the dealership trainee who last put it all back together last year )
cleaned the maf sensor plug ..
changed air and turbo filters ,, not that they needed it ..
did my best to heat insulate the synergy module ( used some closed cell foam material )
~~~~~~~~~
cleared fault codes ..
started it .. ( synergy module turned 'off' ) looked at live readings .. ran it up to 1500 rpm ..
all injectors read 0.0 at that rpm .. average .. at idle two were a bit under .. like down to -0.2
air flow read 350 at idle .. 300 at 1500 rpm
lp. fuel were 392 .. hp.fuel was 28k idle .. 30k at 1500 rpm
fuel rail sensor read 4.993 volts
started fine .. no smoke .. engine felt smooth ..
~~~~~~~~~~
turned the synergy 'on'
re-started it .. seemed to be all ok ..
( didn't do live readings again as i don't think readings would be accurate .. particularly the maf
( not sure how it would .. or wouldn't effect the fuel readings
~~~~~~~~~~~
drained the sedimenter .. **fuel were clean** ..
( ** edit 28th august disregard that .. mistaken observation
( re-drained properly and it appears there was some water in the fuel
( not much .. but Any .. is too much ..

yet to take it for a drive

that's all for now folks

~ S ~

hd3 said:

air flow read 350 at idle .. 300 at 1500 rpm
lp. fuel were 392 .. hp.fuel was 28k idle .. 30k at 1500 rpm

Click to expand...

MAF is low, as it should show more flow at higher speeds, not less.
LP is perfect.

HP 28Kpa at idle is spot on.
30Kpa seems low for 1500 RPM, I'd expect to see more like 40Kpa+ at that speed.

MAF is low, as it should show more flow at higher speeds, not less.
LP is perfect.

HP 28Kpa at idle is spot on.
30Kpa seems low for 1500 RPM, I'd expect to see more like 40Kpa+ at that speed.

Click to expand...

cheers for observation :-]
yeah was wondering about the maf reading .. didn't make sense
[ i think i've a spare ]
hp. a bit of a worry .. :-/
given all fuel parts [except injectors] were replaced with new LR items 1 year / 10k miles ago
`````
was just reading an article re. similar symptoms on a fl1/td4
cause suggested be the lp.pump
not the live readings .. just the running symptoms i've mentioned in 1st post ..
[ have a spare oem one ]
`````````````````````````````````````
[ btw: those readings be with vehicle stationary ]

yeah .. low hp. a bit worrisome
ditto for the maf
` s `

hang on ..

it's a pierbug maf .. with synergy totally 'off'
i.e. no maf compensation
[ fergot about that small detail ]
i should have had the maf switch 'on' .. silly me!

i'll recheck tmrw. too knackered right now

` s `

ok .. quick re-check with the synergy switched 'on' ..

vehicle stationary ..

engine relatively cold as didn't want to run it long in the street next to houses

idle rpm .. coolant temp 35c
h.p. fuel .. 30kpa
maf .. 433 mg/strk
~~
1500 rpm .. coolant temp 48c
h.p. fuel .. 33 kpa
maf .. 420 mg/strk
~~~
1800 rpm .. coolant temp 57c
h.p. fuel .. 39.9 kpa
maf .. 436 mg strk

btw: rpm's read via the dash dial .. not the scanner

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
other readings appeared to be ok
just need to take it for a spin .. get it up to temp
see if it accelerates ok on the flat ..
then try a charge up my favourite test hills
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ S ~

took it for a drive today .. 40 mile round trip
a few steep hills on route

on the drive out it ran fine
although now it's taking more cranking to start ( even when cold )
like it wheezes into life rather than eagerly starting on 1st crank revolution like it always has done

on startup this morn. engine felt a bit rough ( not normal for mine at all )

on way back was running fine untill the 1st hill climb
it lost power and i had to downshift into 4th
( on same hill if starting at 50mph in 5th gear
(and if i floor it .. . it'll reach 78mph by the time i reach the hill's crest
and again it started surging on part go-pedal on way down the next hill
( no surging when going uphill .. just underpowered )

so i stopped .. turned off engine
and turned the fueling 'off' on the synergy module ( ron box )
ran better all the way home .. no lack of power ..
in fact power didn't seem much different compared to when ron box fueling were 'on'
just took a little longer to get moving .. i just needed to add a bit more go-pedal that's all ..

got home .. turned engine off ..
unloaded car ..
went to start up again to park it in it's usual place
again .. it were reluctant to start .. needed more cranking that usual ..

no dash warning light came on during trip
but have yet to scan for any fault codes

again .. no smoking from exhaust ..
engine ran smooth .. idled smoothly ..
just a sudden lack of power and the part go-pedal surging ..

maybe the ron box fueling circuitry has gone haywire from the recent heatwave
maybe the cam sensor be on it's way out as well .. ( original one still in place )
could it be the crank sensor ? i wonder ..
or the .. ahem .. cough cough ,, 'new' fuel regulator on the hp.pump

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stumped at the moment as to what the fault .. or faults .. may be ..
might know a bit more .. or not .. when i do a fault code scan again ..

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pizzed off at moment .. :-/

had a minor issue with desktop comp. at home as well ..
think i'll just plug in m' guitar and play some blues
at least my efforts at a guitar setup worked out well :-]

~ S ~

current plan of action .. as i've spares here
1 ] .. replace the cam sensor
2 ] .. replace the pierburg maf with a bosch maf and remove the ron-box altogether

considering buying a new hp.pump regulator .. and new fuel rail sensor .. just in case
[ going to be mad-as-'ell if it turns out to be the 'new' regulator .. or the 'new' rail sensor ]

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dear hawkeye .. just wtf do you mean by 'governor'
[ maybe i should email bearmach and politely ask them ]
above be just a note-to-self in case i wake up tmrw with semi-amnesia ;-]

~ S ~

Have you taken the Synergy Box out of the equation?

i.e. have you tried putting the car back to standard.