So why does the engine-swap myth persist?

There it is, if when done, you can say "I'd do it again" then it's a winner.

It's a very broad church. And with numerous solutions.

If you're doing such things 'eyes-open', and you want to do this, it's your time, your money. Why on earth not? Don't get me wrong, I'm only doubting the glib "goes in easy" brigade.

It's just that my current solution to grunt, the ACR Powerplus kit is given a hard time for being dear, which it is. £2000, it's bolt-on, and gets lots of flak. It reads along the lines of "You could do a V8/Tdi for less" etc. Really? Not for much less, I don't think 'all-in' you could. It only looks like you could. It'll certainly take more time.

I'd do another ACR tomorrow. I'd do a V8 again, if I could afford someone to do it for me - but cheaper to buy a Stagey.

But as I said, it's your time, your money. Do what you want.

Can’t see a Stage 1 being cheaper than a shoving a V8 in a Series.

You’re putting a very complicated but arguably subjective analysis on cost v value. I just did it. You also have experience of swapping. It’s a provenance thingy? If it’s not deviating majorly from original it should be valid and reflected in the value.

My 2a had (has!) a 2.5 petrol from a later 110. I can't remember the cost as it was some years ago, but I had no trouble fitting it and it was done in a couple of days.

I did pay a proper mechanic to do it, admittedly, but I had no trouble whatsoever!

If you put a tally on all the money you spend, surely the Land Rover experience wouldn't be too much fun..

Just be like me at the Pumps..

Never look at the readout,

I'd love to get a 110 form 1989 and fit a well built TVR spec 5.2 RV8 into it with a GM Turbo 400 trans and LPG

Would go well and be bespoke..


However what i can't stand is very rare exclusive cars that get cut up and ruined.

Henry_b said:

If you put a tally on all the money you spend, surely the Land Rover experience wouldn't be too much fun..

Just be like me at the Pumps..

Never look at the readout,

I'd love to get a 110 form 1989 and fit a well built TVR spec 5.2 RV8 into it with a GM Turbo 400 trans and LPG

Would go well and be bespoke..


However what i can't stand is very rare exclusive cars that get cut up and ruined.

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Sounds great, hit a nice long straight, put your foot down for a few seconds, hit the brakes.... and wait..........................!

wattfield said:

Sounds great, hit a nice long straight, put your foot down for a few seconds, hit the brakes.... and wait..........................!

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Aye hitting a tree in a 110 at 70+mph would be fun..

Good way to go,

Henry_b said:

Aye hitting a tree in a 110 at 70+mph would be fun..

Good way to go,

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Maybe not for the tree.

A GM400 would be about the worst gearbox to put with an engine like that. Just dull dull dull and with only 3 gears would totally blunt the performance while offering terrible cruising ability and mpg.

>>Can’t see a Stage 1 being cheaper than a shoving a V8 in a Series.<<

Here's why I started this thread. ^^Seems like a classic example of the myth running amok to me^^.

How so? A decent rot-free leafer will cost you £6-8000. A decent rot-free Stagey will cost you £9-11000. Conversion cost to V8 will be £2-3000 and take forever, unless you hash it up, and when you're done, decent rot-free leafer with 'wrong' engine is worth £4-6000. Or certainly has not increased in value. And if you're the sort that hasn't looked to its wisdom , it is more likely to be an eyes-shut gash-in. They're on eBay every week. A decent rot-free Stagey remains worth £9-11000.

My numbers will be off, but the central point stands. You need some very good reasons to engine-swap anything decent. Best to do it something that is already junk

109SeriesIIA said:

>>Can’t see a Stage 1 being cheaper than a shoving a V8 in a Series.<<

Here's why I started this thread. ^^Seems like a classic example of the myth running amok to me^^.

How so? A decent rot-free leafer will cost you £6-8000. A decent rot-free Stagey will cost you £9-11000. Conversion cost to V8 will be £2-3000 and take forever, unless you hash it up, and when you're done, decent rot-free leafer with 'wrong' engine is worth £4-6000. Or certainly has not increased in value. A decent rot-free Stagey remains worth £9-11000.

I might have my numbers off, but the central point stands. You need some very good reasons. or wouldn't put engine-swap anything decent. Best to do it something that is already junk

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I suspect almost everyone considering a V8 conversion would already own a Series.... so it's only the conversion cost

And I think you have a pretty broad definition of hash it up.....

And lets not forget you can't really buy an 88 Stage 1 as they only built 6.

And I suspect you can still buy a Series for a heck of a lot less than £6k.

You've moved the goal-posts a little to 88s, but the numbers still stack. You've reinforced my point. You're right, rough examples can be found, sure there's an iffy 88 out there for £1500-2000. Stuff of £3-5000 all day long. I saw a 'beyond it' Stagey for £2000 not long back. The conversion will still present the same problem.

I can hang on for grim death, and still the outcome fails to look promising. You'll see, the bottom-rung of eBay only bears this out.

300bhp/ton said:

A GM400 would be about the worst gearbox to put with an engine like that. Just dull dull dull and with only 3 gears would totally blunt the performance while offering terrible cruising ability and mpg.

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Think you'll find the turbo 400 is a great cruiser and with 3rd being direct drive 1:1 I'd say economy while cruising would be ok'ish but strength is what I'm after

Mpg is irrelevant also, LPG would offer the price difference I'd be after.

The 400 is also great at taking serious amounts of input torque while coupled to the right converter.

A 727 Chrysler would also do well.

Or a powerglide 2spd

Henry_b said:

Think you'll find the turbo 400 is a great cruiser and with 3rd being direct drive 1:1 I'd say economy while cruising would be ok'ish but strength is what I'm after

Mpg is irrelevant also, LPG would offer the price difference I'd be after.

The 400 is also great at taking serious amounts of input torque while coupled to the right converter.

A 727 Chrysler would also do well.

Or a powerglide 2spd

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If you are off roading only and building something like a rock bouncer then they can work and are tough. But for a road car they are pony. Had one in my V12 XJ-S.

Nearly all gearboxes have a 1:1 gear, usually 4th in a 5 or 6 speed manual and usually 3rd in a traditional automatic. Overdrive as per name is a lower ratio than 1:1

The trouble with the GM400 and 3 gears is, to get sensible cruising rpm you need to run suitably tall diff gears, 1:1 in the box is the same as 4th gear in a Series. Tall gears will blunt performance.

To have sporty acceleration will mean shorter diff gears, but no OD mean poor cruising ability. Basically with only 3 gears you can't have the best of both worlds and usually end up compromising on both. Not too mention even a 5.2 litre Rover V8 isn't exactly a HP monster. A very nice engine yes, but an expensive way to get to moderate power levels. Nothing that will remotely bother most other gearboxes.

A 4L80e or 6L80e would make more sense or maybe even a latter ZF unit if you could get it mounted. But being auto they will still blunt the fun vs a manual.

You do an engine change either because you need to or you want to. The need to ones are mostly like for like or related types of engine Done a few and it is not so much work or cost on top of the replacement engine price.
The want to type, fitting engines of another make, changing gear box's,non standard rad's exhaust ect is another matter,how long it takes and how much you spend is up to you.
A mate and myself once shoehorned a V8 with an LT95 into an 80 inch trialer,getting the engine and box in place was straight forward enough,the hard work was finding space for all the other bits needed and finding a position where the very short rear prop would work.

109SeriesIIA said:

You've moved the goal-posts a little to 88s, but the numbers still stack. You've reinforced my point. You're right, rough examples can be found, sure there's an iffy 88 out there for £1500-2000. Stuff of £3-5000 all day long. I saw a 'beyond it' Stagey for £2000 not long back. The conversion will still present the same problem.

I can hang on for grim death, and still the outcome fails to look promising. You'll see, the bottom-rung of eBay only bears this out.

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What goal posts? Your op doesn't mention engine swaps only in a 109.

As for Series motors, I've not checked prices this year. But I'd be amazed that you can't still buy a solid vehicle for a lot less money. I only paid £600 for mine ~5 years ago.

And whichever way we wriggle, the same outcome. I feel like you've come full-circle, correcting me by paraphrasing my own facts. Thank you. I agree.

109SeriesIIA said:

So why does the engine-swap myth persist?

We all like an engine-swap don’t we?
The idea goes that ‘next weekend’ you can ‘bung-in’ an engine, and all for £600. There are exceptions, but most of you with experience know the reality. Do it properly costs the fun-side of three times what you’d think, and takes four times longer. Else, the finish sits with the other lash-ups seen on eBay most weeks.

Some things we like to deny, other things we liek ot over-estimate. What did yours really cost and how long did it really take?

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So far, Old Smoky (which is a 1977 88" truck cab diesel) has cost me a five digit sum to get it back to being roadworthy, including a complete engine swap (from a knackered 2,25 diesel to a refurbished ditto). And those five digits are in GBP, not Monopoly money. Crazy? Yeah. But I did not buy that car to let it sit on my yard, looking sad, nor to send it to the scrappers.

I’d like to completely remanufacture a like for like engine as a project. It wouldn’t be cost effective in the slightest but would keep me off the streets. As for an upgrade, we’ll if I wanted faster I would simply bin the series. I don’t own one for performance.

Riggwelter said:

So far, Old Smoky (which is a 1977 88" truck cab diesel) has cost me a five digit sum to get it back to being roadworthy, including a complete engine swap (from a knackered 2,25 diesel to a refurbished ditto). And those five digits are in GBP, not Monopoly money. Crazy? Yeah. But I did not buy that car to let it sit on my yard, looking sad, nor to send it to the scrappers.

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Unless you've messed it up, and on the proviso you're at the lower reaches of 5 figures, I don't think what you've done is all that unwise. You won't be in profit, but you'll not look too silly either.

Could it be sold here?:

https://www.landrovercentre.com/

If so, and it's not covered in homoerotic shonk - obligatory eight-spokes/ wolfs and chequer-plate, you'll be fine.