Snow Chains

Anyone got any I can beg/steal/borrow/buy? Missed a few sets on ebay. Can collect South Wales area, possibly Bristol/Gloucester over the Xmas Holls. Standard 255/55/19's.

Cheers

Can't help you, but with all the aids (traction etc.) fitted to modern 4x4's do you really need chains these days?

The law in the Alpine regions of France apparently.......

Great looking Classic BTW.

Wyn Davies said:

The law in the Alpine regions of France apparently.......

Great looking Classic BTW.

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Is that not just for non 4x4's? @mikescuba will probably know.

Wyn Davies said:

The law in the Alpine regions of France apparently.......

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Since according to the RAC, a combination of cold climate (winter) tyres and /or snow chains are a legal requirement in different parts of the continent, and depending on how many times you intend to visit those areas I would suggest that you'd be best off, for safety's sake buying a new set of chains properly sized for your vehicle of your own.
The RAC also advises that you at least practice once or twice fitting the chains without the pressure of time and weather just to be sure you know how to do it as the need arises.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/driving-abroad/winter/

Aye. Bin out there several times in my Quattro Audis. Know the routine etc,,,,,,,,,

My son works in Switzerland. Once the clocks change in October you have to have snow tyres fitted and carry chains. Foreign cars likely to be stopped and checked so he has them.

John S said:

My son works in Switzerland. Once the clocks change in October you have to have snow tyres fitted and carry chains. Foreign cars likely to be stopped and checked so he has them.

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So that's what the Swiss do when they are not melting down gold teeth.
I thought they would be busy taking the pennies of dead men's eyes.

When there is a heavy snow fall the Gendarme will be at the bottom of the hill checking you have snow chains whether its a 4x4 or 2x4. A sign will normally be displayed telling you snow chains required. One other point I would mention for peoples personal safety is Tires on 4x4 marked M&S are acceptable at the moment but new law coming into force I think it was the end of 2018 stipulating acceptable snow tires have to have the snow flake on them . Not just marked M&S. For M&S markings to be on a tire there is not set standard that the tires have to meet. That changes with the snow flake on the tire. I would also mention I have General Grabber AT2's on my 110 Defender with loads of tread. Which were rated as a good snow tire when they came out. They are great for straight line keeping you going but useless when it comes to cornering. Our cars with snow tires have far more grip. A mud tread is completely different to a snow tire tread. A good mud tread has to be a bit knobbly and able to dig in and expel the mud. A snow grip has to have loads of small channels in the tire to expel water and snow and still keep a firm tread on the road which is completely different to a mud tire. The previous own of my Defender drove the 110 into a ditch. It slid on the ice and snow. The postman in his Renault Kangoo with proper snow tires ended up pulling him out of the ditch. The 110 did have Cooper At's M&S rated tires on it.

mikescuba said:

A mud tread is completely different to a snow tire tread. A good mud tread has to be a bit knobbly and able to dig in and expel the mud. A snow grip has to have loads of small channels in the tire to expel water and snow and still keep a firm tread on the road which is completely different to a mud tire. .

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Good point, for my part I always thought the term M&S was something of a contradiction

I've been banging on about "cold climate" or winter tyres for a couple of years now. I don't like to call them "snow" tyres since they are of benefit when there's no snow too. They come into their own at temperatures below plus 7 degrees Celsius (not minus 7 as many people seem to think) and are useful in wet, frosty, icy conditions, not just snow and unlike chains and snow socks, you don't have to remove them when you get onto dry or treated surfaces.
The compound of the tyre is different so that the tyres remain soft and pliable under reduced temperatures and as has already been said, there are small changes in the surface of the tread called snipes which can grip on snow.
One thing to note though, especially in the UK, you might be using cold climate tyres, but the idiot behind you might not be, so my advice is to drive within the limitations of his tyres otherwise your going to have a load of dents in the back bumper to fix come summer.
The M+S marking these days is nothing more than a marketing ploy. Do not trust it to mean anything. Cold climate tyres will be marked with:-

known as 3PMSF, Three Peak Mountain with a Snow Flake.

I have M&S tyres on mine which are fine going uphill on normal roads when it snows. Terrifying coming downhill though which is why I always end up with a long tail of peed of locals behind me. So I always carry a set of chains even though I've never been stopped by the gendarmes. If I remember correctly the law in France is that it's not a legal requirement to carry chains - it's just that if you cause an accident or get stuck through not having them then you're in trouble. So the Gendarmes at the bottom of the hill stop anyone they think might get into trouble when it snows. Happy to be corrected on that though.

The big giveaway is that all the French posties in the Alps run Panda 4x4s and Kangoo 4x4s as mikescuba said.

anatomick said:

I have M&S tyres on mine which are fine going uphill on normal roads when it snows. Terrifying coming downhill though. So I always carry a set of chains even though I've never been stopped by the gendarmes. If I remember correctly the law in France is that it's not a legal requirement to carry chains - it's just that if you cause an accident or get stuck through not having them then you're in trouble. So the Gendarmes at the bottom of the hill stop anyone they think might get into trouble when it snows. Happy to be corrected on that though.

The big giveaway is that all the French posties in the Alps run Panda 4x4s and Kangoo 4x4s.

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I'd have thought that the Gendarmerie would had more important things to do than vehicle checks at the bottom of hills, and left such checks, if necessary, to the Police.

As for chains I never had a requirement for them in my part of the world, although I did purchase a set when I got my RR 30 years ago, thought it was a good thing to do, and I still have them, don't fit my disco's wheels of course or any other car I've owned since my RR days, I get around ok in winter on the standard summer tyres that are fitted.




Sent from my iPad Air on a train

Gotta justify that functionaires budget somehow.

discool said:

I get around ok in winter on the standard summer tyres that are fitted.

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In almost all cases in the southern half (or even three-quarters) of the UK you can get away with quite satisfactorily with "All weather" or even "ordinary summer" tyres, but as I've already said cold climate tyres start coming into their own at temperatures below plus 7 degrees Celsius, not minus 7 degrees. Many areas of the UK will see these temperatures even during daylight hours for quite a number of days during the winter months.
Cold climate tyres will help maintain grip on cold wet roads as well as frost and ice, and I like to know that I have at least a fighting chance of keeping 2 1/4 tons of Land Rover under control if I do have to stop in a hurry.
OK, I'm fortunate in that I can afford to maintain two sets of wheels with different tyre types.

Here in the Tuscan hills we have to either carry snow chains or have thermal tyres fitted from 15th November to 15th April. When its snowing having a 4x4 with normal tyres is no good at all on a hill. I learn't this the hard way! A 2WD car with thermal tyres is far better.

Presumably, a 4x4 with low ratio gears and thermal tyres is about as good as it gets.

Sorry, I've been using the term thermal tyres because that is what they are called here but I've just checked the car and what I am actually talking about is winter tyres with the mountain and the snow flake symbol as shown by brian47 above.

I know its not really related to the OP, but I've got virtually brand new Cooper discoverer STT Pro's , which are a fairly aggressive mud tyre, and I couldn't believe how utterly useless they were in the snow covered tarmac roads.

There's always been a debate about how good mud tyres are in snow, and I've found out for myself that they are pretty damn useless! I can certainly see why chains would be a requirement in mountainous regions. My brother in an unloaded sprinter van made almost the same progress as me up a very steep snow covered lane , with chains fitted, than I did with massively grippy tyres, diff lock engaged and an lsd in the rear axle.

Chains are amazing bits of kit and a must have in the snow.

anatomick said:

I have M&S tyres on mine which are fine going uphill on normal roads when it snows. Terrifying coming downhill though which is why I always end up with a long tail of peed of locals behind me. So I always carry a set of chains even though I've never been stopped by the gendarmes. If I remember correctly the law in France is that it's not a legal requirement to carry chains - it's just that if you cause an accident or get stuck through not having them then you're in trouble. So the Gendarmes at the bottom of the hill stop anyone they think might get into trouble when it snows. Happy to be corrected on that though.

The big giveaway is that all the French posties in the Alps run Panda 4x4s and Kangoo 4x4s as mikescuba said.

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Not a legal requirement to carry snow chains here in France but is a legal requirement to have them fitted in certain areas like the roads leading up to the Alps. The Gendarme will not let you up the mountain pass.
And the posties around here in the Massif central have Renault Kangoo's 2x4 and still go anywhere my Defender will go. They are used to driving in snow conditions which also helps.

Got to certain parts of Italy and you must have "winter tyres fitted".

Cheers