Freelander 1 Snap on live data

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GrumpyGel said:
Shame the car doesn't use the driver's right foot as an indication of how much "GO" or "ECO" you want to achieve!
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It does;)
I tend to use more go then eco tbh. The Freelander is economical by comparison to my D3, so I just use go ;)

Jackofthedale said:
Which maf did you use?
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I thought I'd experiment with a £25 Ebay MAF.
It works too, which is a surprise. I was expecting it to cause more running issues than it solved, but it didn't. The engine is running very well, for a diesel. The MAF signal is much more linear and went to a higher maximum than the 10 year Bosch item.
 
Joe_H said:
Sorry mate, you are simply stabbing in the dark with the 'live data' tests - just because the instrument can do it - doesn't mean the input is useful, you are actually complicating systems.

First step - as no codes are present and you are not fully conversant in real time data- throw away the snap on reader.
NOW, unplug the MAF sensor and drive it ? how does it perform > basics are what you need dude - not overly complex data on a screen taht has probably nothing at all to do with you fault.
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Howdi y'all.
Right, unplugged the maf and it drives the same if not better!

Shall I spend the big bucks and get genuine or do as Nodge68 did and get 3rd party cheap jobby?

Cheers!
 
Jackofthedale said:
Howdi y'all.
Right, unplugged the maf and it drives the same if not better!

Shall I spend the big bucks and get genuine or do as Nodge68 did and get 3rd party cheap jobby?

Cheers!
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It is not diagnostic when you say 'it drives the same if not better'
you said at the beginning is way down on power. If it was the maf, the fallback map would give you a reasonable performance - less than optimum and with higher fuel consumption. but reasonable.
Is the performance nearly as good as the other td4 now ?
If so, then that is a considerable difference in your description. The 3rd party ebay ones see to be fine in general - there is not a lot of technology in a MAF (relatvie to other electronic sensors) so there is little to go wrong in producing a non oem part. Nodge found his to be absolutely fine.
However, a barely noticeable change would tend to point to something else.

If you go back to the diagnostic equipment and look at a limited list of PIDS, then you may be able to see more, look at LP and HP fuel pressure for a start.
Don't over-complicate the screen with stacks of unwanted data.
Hope that helps :)
Joe
 
Okay dud
Joe_H said:
It is not diagnostic when you say 'it drives the same if not better'
you said at the beginning is way down on power. If it was the maf, the fallback map would give you a reasonable performance - less than optimum and with higher fuel consumption. but reasonable.
Is the performance nearly as good as the other td4 now ?
If so, then that is a considerable difference in your description. The 3rd party ebay ones see to be fine in general - there is not a lot of technology in a MAF (relatvie to other electronic sensors) so there is little to go wrong in producing a non oem part. Nodge found his to be absolutely fine.
However, a barely noticeable change would tend to point to something else.

If you go back to the diagnostic equipment and look at a limited list of PIDS, then you may be able to see more, look at LP and HP fuel pressure for a start.
Don't over-complicate the screen with stacks of unwanted data.
Hope that helps :)
Joe
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Okay dude will do and yes it helps! It's not thrown a Check engine light after unplugging the maf which I thought was weird.. not sure I can get lp and hp readings with that snap on. What diagnostic equipment would be best for the landy? Thanks
 
Jackofthedale said:
Okay dud

Okay dude will do and yes it helps! It's not thrown a Check engine light after unplugging the maf which I thought was weird.. not sure I can get lp and hp readings with that snap on. What diagnostic equipment would be best for the landy? Thanks
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The snap on should do it mate - you seem to have some fuel pressure pids on the images - you should be looking at flow pressure and hp sensors

@Nodge68 has a lot of experience with td4 units and fuel pressure issues - problems with the regulator o ring seal for example.
Cheers
Joe
 
Also check egr valve for proper closure (physically inspect it) consider egr removal and bypass as well as cleaning out all the crud - you may have a partially stuck egr. It is worth cleaning anyway as the cr&p in the manifold as well as the build up is unbelievable. - might be worth doing that first.
 
The eg
Joe_H said:
Also check egr valve for proper closure (physically inspect it) consider egr removal and bypass as well as cleaning out all the crud - you may have a partially stuck egr. It is worth cleaning anyway as the cr&p in the manifold as well as the build up is unbelievable. - might be worth doing that first.
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the egr has actually been removed before I bought the vehicle and intake is surprisingly clean so they may have done that at the same time. @Nodge68 will surely be a handy bloke to know then as well as the rest of you guys, thank you for your input so far. I will check the flow pressure and hp (I assume high pressure??) Sensors and report back. The snap on got slagged off by another member on here so I was unsure whether to trust the data I was given you see.

Not sure where to start with it all. I get power in higher revs (2750rpm + i think) but getting there is a grind..
 
If performance with the MAF disconnected is still low, then the fault is likely to be elsewhere. The default fuelling map that ECU runs when the MAF is disconnected, should restore most of the performance.
You need to check the low and high fuel pressure. The low pressure should be ~360Kpa at idle and not drop below 320Kpa with the engine running flat out.
High pressure should be ~25,000Kpa it idle and ~100,000Kpa flat out.
 
Nodge68 said:
If performance with the MAF disconnected is still low, then the fault is likely to be elsewhere. The default fuelling map that ECU runs when the MAF is disconnected, should restore most of the performance.
You need to check the low and high fuel pressure. The low pressure should be ~360Kpa at idle and not drop below 320Kpa with the engine running flat out.
High pressure should be ~25,000Kpa it idle and ~100,000Kpa flat out.
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You're a legend dude thanks fo the info. Will snap on solus give said info or will I need something else?
 
Jackofthedale said:
The original image shows requested fuel pressure and pressure delivered - do they prove anything? The 2 figures are very different
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I can't work out what the actual fuel pressure is, as i can't work out what integer has been used. The HPFR should top out at about 1300 Bar but around 1000 Bar is what most live data readers display. The pressure is commonly shown in Kpa, which would gives a figure of up to around 100,000 Kpa.
The LP pump should be over 320Kpa which is over 3.2 Bar. But the regulated pressure is ~360Kpa or 3.6 Bar.
I still can't work out why the MAF is showing more than the expected. Mostly because I can't decide how the diag is coming up with the expected figure?
I'd use actual figures anyway, not diagnostic expected figures, as those can only be a guess. What is strange, is the 2K Rpm MAF reading is very close to the idle reading, which isn't correct. It does point to a bad MAF. But if performance doesn't improve when the MAF is unplugged, it kinda discounts it. The O MAF signal map will improve performance over a weak MAF signal.
 
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Nodge68 said:
I can't work out what the actual fuel pressure is, as i can't work out what integer has been used. The HPFR should top out at about 1300 Bar but around 1000 Bar is what most live data readers display. The pressure is commonly shown in Kpa, which would gives a figure of up to around 100,000 Kpa.
The LP pump should be over 320Kpa which is over 3.2 Bar. But the regulated pressure is ~360Kpa or 3.6 Bar.
I still can't work out why the MAF is showing more than the expected. Mostly because I can't decide how the diag is coming up with the expected figure?
I'd use actual figures anyway, not diagnostic expected figures, as those can only be a guess.
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Thank you once again for the info dude and I'm sorry if I'm sounding a right lemon here but how to I get said figures? With the snapon or with a different device?

Thank you
 
I would also have a check around the vacuum hoses for leaks - there appears to be be some fluctuation from egr request (I know it is removed) and wastegate. With egr removed I would not have expected to see that - however, I am unfamiliar with that tool. I presume the figures are simply commanded ? -
Worth checking around the vac system though - especially to the turbo VNT actuator from the vac VNT modulator. you can remove the old egr vac stuff (tubing), and cap it. I note you seem to get the power at higher rpm - (did you say above about 2700 ?) if so, I would be looking around the turbo actuator for vac leaks..
Strange set of circumstances.
Joe
 
Joe_H said:
I would also have a check around the vacuum hoses for leaks - there appears to be be some fluctuation from egr request (I know it is removed) and wastegate. With egr removed I would not have expected to see that - however, I am unfamiliar with that tool. I presume the figures are simply commanded ? -
Worth checking around the vac system though - especially to the turbo VNT actuator from the vac VNT modulator. you can remove the old egr vac stuff (tubing), and cap it. I note you seem to get the power at higher rpm - (did you say above about 2700 ?) if so, I would be looking around the turbo actuator for vac leaks..
Strange set of circumstances.
Joe
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Agreed. If disconnecting the MAF doesn't restore most of the lost performance. Then vacuum leaks are the next check. The pipes chaff where they rub against the head in a few locations. It's probably best to simply replace the lot, just for piece of mind.
 
Hi Guys
Just had a similar issue with very slow pick-up on my 01 TD4 which turned out to be the turbo boost valve vacuum pipe ( as Joe_h and Nodge68 both suggest ) which was perished at the connection to the boost solenoid ( at bottom rear of engine looking from the front ) and some of the rest of the pipe wasn't too good either but was hidden by the protective sleeving that it runs in throught the head behind the injectors, replaced the whole pipe - performance back to normal !! Hope this helps

The pipe is easier to access from below at the boost solenoid.
 
Oldyam said:
Hi Guys
Just had a similar issue with very slow pick-up on my 01 TD4 which turned out to be the turbo boost valve vacuum pipe ( as Joe_h and Nodge68 both suggest ) which was perished at the connection to the boost solenoid ( at bottom rear of engine looking from the front ) and some of the rest of the pipe wasn't too good either but was hidden by the protective sleeving that it runs in throught the head behind the injectors, replaced the whole pipe - performance back to normal !! Hope this helps

The pipe is easier to access from below at the boost solenoid.
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Thank you for your input fella! I'm off to the local motor factors tomorrow to pick up a few bits and a load of vac hose if they've got it! Just out of interest, anyone here local to north Manchester?
 
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