Series lll Brake Nightmare

Having alot of problems over the last week or so with the brakes on my series 3.

Changed 3 wheel cylinders due to leaking,new shoes all round,new drums all round, tried and tried to bleed brakes but to no avail,pedal still goes flat to floor and hardens up on 2nd/3rd pump.

Replaced master cylinder and resovoir this afternoon and bled with an eazi bleed,spent 2 hours in total going round and round bleeding the system and finally think all the airs out of there. Now with the handbrake off on a slight slope with the landrover slowly rolling forward (engine not running,just free wheeling) the brake pedal travels right to floor but will stop her. Second pump and its hard like it should be.

Have tried doing snail adjusters previousley, but the problem I get is. When there right off the wheels will turn freely but stick at a certain point then carry on turning freely and so on. If I adjust them on the brakes bind slightly but the braking is good. Tried running it around hoping they'd bed in/wear down to no avail just used lots of petrol:doh:


Any advice would be much appreciated,


Was thinking of ordering another decent set of shoes or taking an angle grinder to the shoes currently fitted but unsure what to do for best really.

here we go again lol
sounds simple but have you put the spring on the right part in the shoes ie shoe to backing plate not shoe to shoe
take of the resivour cap pump the brake till its hard and get somebody to see if the fluid rises with the pedel still pressed if it does check the springs
its a simple thing to do i done it myself and spent weeks trying to sort it out

Sure there on right,,,,but will double check tht tommorrow. Thanks for your advice

take a look ere, http://www.landrover-online.dk/L-R WSM/seriesiii/SIII_ROM_Part_6.pdf
shud help yers

As Pobby said its your springs, I thought it sounded a little odd but it works, read my string from a couple of weeks ago same problem with the extra fault of a duff copper tube set, also if you have tried to bleed it through several times you may need some fresh brake fluid as it gets dirty, good luck

downloaded all those pdf's dunno if its legal but very usefull, some guy on the disco section sent me a similar thing for the 300tdi engine I have, most usefull.

If you check out my webby bottom of the idex page is the 'library' section, which as its a development zone, is a bit of a mess, BUT, there is a mass of links to where the pdf 'stuff' is or was stored on the net.... bit of a mess as I haven't validated it for a while, but the little red x's where I haven't uploaded the icons lately, should link to the variouse files where they still lurk.

Dealing with the brakes...

First, grip slip, grip slip, as you rotate teh drum implies an out of round drum. This needs replacing, basically with a round one. Normally happens becouse the drum has been worn thin; they can be machined, but for the price, not worth it, especially as machining makes them thinner, so they go out of round again fairly quickly.

Next, shoe alignment; in the ROM there is a shed load of detail about aligning the guides for teh shoes so they sit square to the drum; if you DONT get the alignment right, then the shoes apply at a slant, and you use up travel bringing them square.

Then there is teh snal adjusters; and these are 'notched', idea is you adjust them up until they grip, then back them off 1/8 turn, BUT get them sitting in a notch to hold them steady.

Bleeeding the brakes on a series is a pain in the back-side; and you say you used an EZ-bleed.... which sort?

The common Gunson/Draper pressure bleed kit doesn't have an 'imperial' thread cap to fit on a series reservour, which means they dont work very well. I got round the problem by robbing a brake reservoir cap off a scrapper, and drilling I think it was an 8mm hole in the middle to take the Gunson pressure line.

And IF you can get that to work properly, you then have the problem that the front brakes on a series have the bleed nipple on the bottom cylinder, and the air collects in the top one, so you dont get rid of it, no matter HOW much fluid you purge.

There are a few 'tricks' here:-

First, strip the drums back down.... bet you beld thru AFTER putting teh shoes and drums on, didn't you?

Well, whay you do, is strip them back down to the bare cylinders, then you hold the pistons in the cylinders, preferably with G-Clamps, or alternatively, the old bake shoes over them, and cargo strap 'Tie-Downs' around them..... or failing THAT thick cable ties around each piston/cylinder assembly, to completely compress them.

G-Clamps are best, the others still offer some degree of 'flex' but its usually little enough.

NOW bleed the brakes again, becouse compressing teh pistons SHOULD have pushed most of the air out, or at least into the lines, and leave least volume for the air to avoid heading out the bleed nipple.

THEN, you fit the shoes and drums, pump the brakes up, one at a time, topping up the reservoir between each wheel.

Then, when all back together, you bleed through AGAIN, just to make sure.

Some thing that can make bleeding easier;, re-plumb the cylinders, so that the flex-hose goes to the bottom cylinder, and the bleed nipple is on the top one. This may need a short pipe made up to extend the flex-hose.

Oh, forgot the other 'old trick' wedge or strap the brake pedal down over night, to leave the system under pressure and 'compress' any aeration in the fluid, and give it a chance to 'settle' to the top of the system.

Teflon said:

First, grip slip, grip slip, as you rotate teh drum implies an out of round drum. This needs replacing, basically with a round one. Normally happens becouse the drum has been worn thin; they can be machined, but for the price, not worth it, especially as machining makes them thinner, so they go out of round again fairly quickly.

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I thought this myself at first so replaced all four drums with new ones,but the problem still persists but pretty minor.I was thinking of buying some better quality brake shoes and trying again?

Teflon said:

Next, shoe alignment; in the ROM there is a shed load of detail about aligning the guides for teh shoes so they sit square to the drum; if you DONT get the alignment right, then the shoes apply at a slant, and you use up travel bringing them square.

Click to expand...

Im confused with what you say about show aligment as I aint seen anything to allow me to line the shoes up on myn.

Teflon said:

Bleeeding the brakes on a series is a pain in the back-side; and you say you used an EZ-bleed.... which sort?

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Gunsons eazi bleed,, couldnt get a cap for the existing resovoir so I purchased a new Lock heed one with push fitting for £5.99 and the eazi bleed cap now fits a treat.

Teflon said:

you then have the problem that the front brakes on a series have the bleed nipple on the bottom cylinder, and the air collects in the top one, so you dont get rid of it, no matter HOW much fluid you purge.

Click to expand...

Both front and rear only have one cylinder per wheel on myn at the top,its a 1973 model.

I spent ages trying to get all the air out of mi tranny front calipers, ended up taking them off, holding em upside down on the disc still and bleeding them, finally sorted it, then I realised that when I'd taken them both off I'd got them mixed up, which meant that the bleed nipples where at the bottom not the top, as they are handed.
I dont believe land rover did that, what a pain.
Dunno whether it'd be possible but I wonder if you could 'fill' the top slave cyl with an oil can, then hold your finger over the pipe and connect it up quickly.

Should of said In last post,, I managed to sort my brake problem this afternoon. Full credit goes to pobby,, I had the springs on wrong:doh:.


Gonna have a tinker about with it again tommorrow as its pulling slightly to one side when applying brakes but more than happy that theres now firm pressure in the pedal.

When turning the wheels by hand Im still experiencing them sticking slightly so far round but this only feels pretty minor and Im hoping it will dissapear once driven a few mile.Although im pretty tempted to buy some better quality shoes as the ones fitted are only cheap britpart ones. Unless anyone else has an idea?

ome times the sillyest things are what go wrong glad i could help

as for the pulling i would say thay just need a little fine tuning on the adjuster go out on a quiet road and do some really long braking that will sort out the friction surface of the shoes then jack up all 4 wheels get under the axle so you can pull on both wheels at the same time and you might find 1 is tighter than the other just adjust the wheel that is freest so they drag the same then do the same with the other axle that should sort it out

pobby said:

ome times the sillyest things are what go wrong glad i could help

as for the pulling i would say thay just need a little fine tuning on the adjuster go out on a quiet road and do some really long braking that will sort out the friction surface of the shoes then jack up all 4 wheels get under the axle so you can pull on both wheels at the same time and you might find 1 is tighter than the other just adjust the wheel that is freest so they drag the same then do the same with the other axle that should sort it out

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Cheers mate,,,will have a go at that tommorrow

NIce webby teflon, great tips just sorted my rear brakes had the spring on shoe to shoe
had me puzzled as sure there was no air in cylinders but needed a 2nd pump to get the brakes on so the spring will have been pulling the piston back in on one side of cylinder