series 90 2.5TDi Non starter!

Hi All,
Search through posts but couldnt find similar problem so apologies if this a repeat.
I have a 1988 series 90 2.5 tdi (i think 19J engine?) that ive just not been able to start. So here goes on some of the things that might help in solving this.

It has a heavy duty battery and starter so cranks the engine with no problem.
There is voltage to the glow plugs, and they dont seem to be in bad condition (see photo)
The orange warning light comes on ok and has never gone off before starting the engine (should it?)

On the fuel side, when I losen the bleed / union joints and turn the engine over plenty of clean fuel is coming through.

There is a "dribble" from the Ist injector union (front of engine) that i have tried to seal with ptfe tape but to no avail. (see picture) any suggestions on sealing this?

The only thing i cant understand is the priming lever (see photo) in the manual it says you should get resistance when operated and it doesnt matter how much i pump it there is no resistance what so ever.
Other than the one union, there rest of the piping / joint seem to be in good order.

Well hope this all helps, let me know what you might think , i use my landy for getting around and now we have a bus strike! ho hum....
Cheers
Andy

tissa 19j(td) it,ll av given up like a vast majority av dun

You might have voltage at the glow plugs BUT do they work ??? test them as there out of the motor ( put them in a vice , or hold em with some pliers , as they will burn ya if there working . see here http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f41/renewing-glow-plugs-86457.html ) .

How long are you holding the key on the heat position befor cranking ????? ( the light/power stays on till you let go ) . heat for 30 seconds then crank .

Are you getting any smoke from the exhaust when your cranking ?

As for the primer on the fuel lift pump , if its up to pressure you wont feel any resistance ( push down to pump ) or it might be " on the cam " in that cose you have to turn the motor over a bit .

try them first and see what you got after ...

.

To prove it it will run or not, get another Landy and TOW it until it runs, or you know it won't run.

This saves burning out your starter motor and flattening your battery.

But the question we all need the answer to so we can help you -
When it is turning over on the starter motor, is there grey smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe?

Don't proceed till you know this. It is either YES, smoke, or NO, no smoke.

CharlesY

Thanks guys , for assistance, To answer your questions:
No smoke comes out the exhaust, before it packed up it was just blue smoke when starting and then clear.
Starting has always been a problem, first start up (after a couple of days) is 1 minute 20 secounds never know why it takes so long (put new glow plugs in etc) but always started .after first time 10 seconds max.
I'll try out the glow plugs on a "fresh" battery and let you know.
Appreciate your support
cheers
Andy

Dunno about this particular engine, so apologies if this isn't applicable, but when my 300 Tdi was a bitch to start, the thing that finally cured it (after changing glows and battery and cleaning earths etc) was replacing the spill pipes between each injector. They go hard and brittle and crack, but easy to replace.

If your engine is the 19J, I have the same engine as yours, and yesterday i put in new glow plugs, and last week i put in new injectors and three months ago the engine have been rebuilted and the engine will NOT fire up on one turn of the key. If you are experience the same as i do, i guess that how these engines are, they are not ment for GETAWAY vehicles, Hehe. However the engine will fire up on one turn of the key if the engine is warm. Worst case senario in your situation, could be, the need to replaced the head gasket.

andylandyuk said:

Thanks guys , for assistance, To answer your questions:
No smoke comes out the exhaust, before it packed up it was just blue smoke when starting and then clear.
Starting has always been a problem, first start up (after a couple of days) is 1 minute 20 secounds never know why it takes so long (put new glow plugs in etc) but always started .after first time 10 seconds max.
I'll try out the glow plugs on a "fresh" battery and let you know.
Appreciate your support
cheers
Andy

Click to expand...

despite what's been said the 19J will start instantly on the key - if it doesn't there's something wrong

forget messing with the plugs and a fresh battery you have to make sure there's fuel getting there first

drop the union off the IP side of the lift pump and make sure it's doing it's job whilst heeding the advise above about it being off cam

Sean said:

despite what's been said the 19J will start instantly on the key - if it doesn't there's something wrong

forget messing with the plugs and a fresh battery you have to make sure there's fuel getting there first

drop the union off the IP side of the lift pump and make sure it's doing it's job whilst heeding the advise above about it being off cam

Click to expand...

These engines do not tend to start on the turn of the key! Is it you Sean who seems to have on that does just that? (In which case you're very lucky )

Like Sean's said, the fueling should be the first place to check. No smoke means that there's no fuel being burned inside the cylinders. If there's compression and you can feel the engine sucking air in by covering the air intake duct then there should be combustion. This would point to a lack of fuel. There are a few things that need to be in good order for these engines to fire up:

1) Cold start mechanism working on injection pump
2) Fuel return diaphragm working in lift pump
3) Glow plugs getting hot

To ensure that your cold start mechanism is kicking in properly use the following picture to check a few things over on your injection pump:



The throttle linkage just above number '10' should be resting right against the steel plate at the end of its operating travel and there should be a small amount of slack in the throttle cable. DO NOT use the adjuster on the throttle cable / linkage to adjust the engine idle speed which someone may have done in the past. To adjust the engine idle speed what you do need to adjust is the small bolt next to number '7'. the further out this adjuster moves i.e. away from no '7' the higher your engine will rev at tickover.

To start the engine, do not touch your accelerator pedal. Ensure that your gearbox is in neutral and press your foot firmly down on the clutch pedal. Now turn the key and hold it in the glowing position for thirty seconds. Turn the key completely to turn the engine over and it should fire up. This is the correct startup procedure for your engine. It WILL make a difference. You should not need to use your accelerator at any point during starting.

If it fails to start, do as Sean has suggested and remove the pipe from the lift pump to the fuel filter housing. It is common for the manual lift pump lever to seem ineffective, so have a friend turn the engine over on the key. Remove the live feed to your fuel stop solenoid first. It should after a few turns blast fuel up towards your bonnet. If this is not the case, swap your lift pump. If this is the case, then the problem lies somewhere between the lift pump and the injectors. Suspect an air leak or a clogged pipe line.

Just as a quick side note. These engines are based on Land Rovers first series diesel engines which were produced back in the 50's. They do not use direct injection, but instead have a pre-injection chamber which is basically like a 'snail shell' shaped cavity in your head. The fuel is injected into here where it is then pre-heated (when starting) and then drawn into the engine for compression. It wasn't the best idea in the world, but they do work none the less. It is the pre-combustion chamber that makes cold starting such a ball ache if other parts of your engine aren't set up or working correctly.

-Pos

Hi Guys,
Thanks for replies, now check and changed glow plugs, checked fuel pipes (broke one!!)
lift pump squirts really strongly, not sure on compression will give it another whirl to determine. Notice the oil has dropped quickly from last top up but no sign of water in it.
Looks like it may be a garage job, still be really helpful to at least check some of the more basic things out.
Cheers
Andy

Well check compression and its good nearly sucked my hand in!!!
So back to the drawing board. Could it be the injectors? What I cant figure is that it was running well the day before with no misfiring / smoke etc yet next day it turns over but does'nt fire at all?
Any thoughts appreicated
cheers
andy

There's some really good advice in this thread pointing to a lack of fuel being delivered and possibly an airlock. Be methodical - stick with it

Be thorough. Check, check again and then check once more after that. Start with the fuel tank. Lift the drivers side manhole cover on your seat box and examine the fuel lines for damage / wear or leaks. if it's been rubbing on part of the chassis it might have worn through, and just because theres no diesel seeping out doesn't mean that it's not drawing air in.

Move from there to the lift pump. You've said that this is working fine. Move on a step further to the fuel filter housing. Dis-assemble the whole thing and then re-assemble it with a new filter canister and rubber seal kit.

Next thing to do is remove the fuel pipe from the fuel filter to the injection pump. Turn the engine over on the key and see if fuel shoots out of the pipe. If so, you're getting fuel to your injection pump.

After connecting the pipe back to your injection pump, disconnect the injector pipes (solid metal pipes) at the injector end, and then turn the engine over. Do they fire fuel all over the place?

If so then it has to be an injector related problem. To check this, re-plumb everything back in but then undo the spill rail on top of the injectors and turn the engine over. If there's gallons of fuel being poured out of these then there's something wrong. They should provide a constant trickle. not gallons.

There really isn't anything else to a diesel engine besides the timing, which you may want to double check. It's a bit of a sod to get to mind because you'll need to remove the crank shaft bolt in order to get the timing cover off.

Other than that it's seems a bit of a mystery to me. The biggest give away would be if there was no fuel leaving the injection pump to the injectors. That immediately points to your fuel stop solenoid. Swap it and put a direct live feed from an external battery onto the solenoid. Have you tested the live feed wire to your current solenoid with a multi-metre?

-Pos

You can lift out the STOP SOLENOID , then take the little plunger off the bottom end of it - then screw the solenoid back in to fill in the hole.

If it starts, it won't stop on the key, and might tick over for a fortnight unless you can think of some other way to stop the engine.

CharlesY