Series 3 2.25L petrol engine in trouble......? (timing chain?)

George000 · Sep 3, 2023

Hi, She cut out on me a few days ago. No trouble leading up to it. Assumed fuel starvation - tank was low and I was on my way to the petrol station anyway. Put 10L in from a jerrycan, primed and... nothing. Persevered a bit, gave up got the wife out to tow me the mile or so home.

Safely at home, diagnosis..... no spark at any plugs. No spark from lead directly out of coil when held close to block. Assumed points. Dizzy cap off and noticed when turning the engine over on the starting handle, no rotation at all in the dizzy. Strange. Thought it felt a little light to turn over too. Took rocker cover off and when turning over on the starting handle, no movement at all on the rockers, valves. Damn.

So some major mechanical failure in the engine I guess. But no bangs, clangs etc when she died, and nor driving hard - pulling up to a junction in the village where I live.

Before I start pulling everything to bits, what are the candidates for failure with the above symptoms? Timing chain snapped? (I thought that is pretty rare?) Anything else more common / likely? Any hints on diagnosis from here?

tottot · Sep 3, 2023

Obvious cam is not turning so its front cover off time, fail of tension unit can lead to chain jumping cogs.

steve2286w · Sep 3, 2023

Failed woodruff key but just as unlikely, all should be revealed with cover off , try not to turn over engine as you don’t want pistons hitting valves , could fully slacken off rockers and check push rods not bent

kermit_rr · Sep 3, 2023

Thought it wasn't an interference engine?

steve2286w · Sep 4, 2023

Yes you may be right, my diesel definitely is as the pistons and valves are flush , but looking at the petrol head the valves look inset a fair way

Wildefalcon · Sep 4, 2023

Easy replace the rods if bent, or if cheapskate, straighten with a hammer.

George000 · Sep 10, 2023

Got the cover off this morning and the chain has indeed snapped!

Dealt with this before on a Ford transit engine (belt) but never a series engine. One thing that's struck me is the valves are all aligned. See photo. Is this normal?

Any comments / experience on repair and reassembly? Looks to me like the crankshaft sprocket (see photo) is badly worn (hooked teeth etc) and needs replaced. Does the head need to come off for inspection of the valves? (did this with the tranny engine but everything was straight as an arrow).

Any tips on recovering timing from scratch (tranny engine had timing holes, not sure these series engines do as the chains are not supposed to break)!

steve2286w · Sep 10, 2023

Them cogs don’t look too clever, for timing look at workshop manual online , can’t see valve pics

George000 · Sep 10, 2023

I was wrong on the valves. They look flush but they're not. If I carefully turn the camshaft they move. OK so I am going to replace both cogs, tensioner, chain, crankshaft oil seal.

Do I need to remove & check pushrods & valves?

tottot · Sep 10, 2023

Pretty sure valves do not collide with pistons with the 2.2 petrol, pull the rocker gear and have a look at the push rods. If all are straight you should be good.
Renew tensioner as if it is failing can result in some chain slap that lead to the chain breaking. By the looks though the bits have done a lot of work.
Once new chain on turn by hand and observe that valves are opening/ closing normal amounts, if so do compression test.

George000 · Sep 10, 2023

Will do that. Think I'll replace the tensioner as no desire to have to pull it all to bits again'

George000 · Sep 16, 2023

Hi anyone got any tips on removing the crankshaft timing gear? Seems stuck fast. Given up for tonight.

steve2286w · Sep 16, 2023

It should slide off the shaft with a couple of small levers, and located by a woodruff key, is that in good condition, not sure if room for big 3 leg puller on it
if that don’t work may be engine out, sump off, bearings out and remove crank and work from that
or if confident mini grinder with 2mm disc and cut off above keyway

is the key aligned properly with slot in cog, are you sure it has not partly sheared , if ok then
another option could be to remove thrust washers from crank and slide crank outwards then install two packer shims between block and cog then tap crank back in a few mm until slack taken up then repeat with fatter shims

jasew162 · Sep 19, 2023

Hi mate I did this just the other day, had to make a puller with 3 bolts and a piece of bar. Hopefully you can see the picture. Did the same job on another engine a day later and it slipped straight off!!
Let me know how you get on, timing is easy just read the book. It varies depending which engine you have and what marks you have o your camshaft sprocket

jasew162 · Sep 19, 2023

My bad!! CRANKSHAFT SPROCKET

like Steve2286w said!

If you remove sump you might be able to get a drift on it from behind and underneath

jasew162 · Sep 19, 2023

You will need to remove number 1 bearing cap though

marjon · Sep 19, 2023

Something funny looks to be going on with that woodruff key?
or is it the pic angle.

but that should pull off with a 3-4 leg puller Shirley?

J

tottot · Sep 20, 2023

Plus one, key looks odd, broken?

George000 · Sep 20, 2023

Got crankshaft sprocket off after persistent persuasion with a large crowbar wedged behind and lots of tapping with a hammer from different angles. As the timing was lost anyway I was able to spin it around and keep going from different angles. Took a while but get there. "to the man with a hammer, every problem is a nail..." almost back together with shiny new chain and sprokets and tensioner. Somehow lost the crank mudguard (front face of the front cover - think it ended up in the bin with the old oil seal so just waiting for new one to arrive then hopefully back on the road.

Thanks for all the advice.

One thing I'm wondering is the big dog for starter handle on the crankshaft. Got it off by wedging a spanner and spinning the starter. Any tips for redoing it to 150lbf (I think) torque again? Manual says to withdraw starter and wedge flywheel with a chisel, but that is awkward as anything and didn't work for getting it off.

jasew162 · Sep 20, 2023

Put it in gear, Handbrake on, wheels chocked. A couple of long extensions onto the 41mm socket and away ya go

Series 3 2.25L petrol engine in trouble......? (timing chain?)

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