Series 11A brakes

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D

Duracell Bunny

Guest
I'm stumped - I gave my old Series (88") new brakes last month. They work, but ...

When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the wheel is jacked
up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at all. To reverse the vehicle
requires low transfer & lots of welly.

And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes fully
released on the adjusters.

I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not done?

--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.'
Catherine Aird
 
Duracell Bunny <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
> I'm stumped - I gave my old Series (88") new brakes last month. They
> work, but ...
> When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the
> wheel is jacked up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at
> all. To reverse the vehicle requires low transfer & lots of welly.
>
> And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes
> fully released on the adjusters.
>
> I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not
> done?

Is it possible to bolt the cylinders on the wrong way and thus fit the shoe
in the wrong way?

Can you get the drum off if you roate the hub forward whist applying your
favourite kind of wellie?

Lee D


 
Lee_D wrote:
> Duracell Bunny <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
> about:
>> I'm stumped - I gave my old Series (88") new brakes last month. They
>> work, but ...
>> When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the
>> wheel is jacked up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at
>> all. To reverse the vehicle requires low transfer & lots of welly.
>>
>> And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes
>> fully released on the adjusters.
>>
>> I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not
>> done?
>
> Is it possible to bolt the cylinders on the wrong way and thus fit the shoe
> in the wrong way?
>
> Can you get the drum off if you roate the hub forward whist applying your
> favourite kind of wellie?
>
> Lee D
>
>
No, the cylinders only go one way - the 88" has a one leading, one trailing shoe
design.

The drum won't come off even when persuaded by my biggest Thor hammer - it gets
about 1/3 of the way, then is solid. It went on 'reasonably' easily, ie was a
little tight, I put this down to a bit of a wear ridge on the drum.

I've driven it around 200kms towing a heavy trailer on the Pacific Highway a few
times, in the hope that a little bit of use & wear would ease things up - it
hasn't.


--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.'
Catherine Aird
 

> When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the wheel is
> jacked
> up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at all. To reverse the
> vehicle requires low transfer & lots of welly.
>
> And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes fully
> released on the adjusters.
>
> I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not done?
>
Sounds like a spring may be missing/broken, or the shoes might be fitted in
the wrong place.
IIRC, one shoe on each side has a gap with no friction material for the
first inch or so, not sure if it is the leading or the trailing shoe, but
you may have them the wrong way round.


 
Duracell Bunny wrote:

> I'm stumped - I gave my old Series (88") new brakes last month. They work,
> but ...
>
> When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the wheel is
> jacked up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at all. To
> reverse the vehicle requires low transfer & lots of welly.
>
> And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes fully
> released on the adjusters.
>
> I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not done?
>

Best guess is that the springs are not in the right place. As to getting the
drum off off - If you can get the drum far enough off to see the shoes, try
clamping the shoes together. Also watch for the shoes tipping out as you
move the drum off - this will jam it.
JD
 
Duracell Bunny wrote:
> I'm stumped - I gave my old Series (88") new brakes last month. They
> work, but ...
>
> When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the wheel
> is jacked up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at all. To
> reverse the vehicle requires low transfer & lots of welly.
>
> And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes fully
> released on the adjusters.
>
> I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not done?
>

It sounds like a lack of free-play in the master cylinder push rod (or a
problem in the inline booster) causing a slight residual pressure in the
hydraulics thus not letting the wheel cylinders return fully. Try
cracking the bleeder to let any pressure go and then removing the drum
with the bleeder still open.

Failing that if you pay the airfare I'll come and sort it out. ;-)

--
EMB
 
EMB wrote:
> Duracell Bunny wrote:
>> I'm stumped - I gave my old Series (88") new brakes last month. They
>> work, but ...
>>
>> When I reverse, the front brakes go on immediately - even if the wheel
>> is jacked up. I can spin them forward easily, backwards not at all. To
>> reverse the vehicle requires low transfer & lots of welly.
>>
>> And I can't get the brake drums off any more, even with the brakes
>> fully released on the adjusters.
>>
>> I've done something silly, any ideas as to what I've done, or not done?
>>
>
> It sounds like a lack of free-play in the master cylinder push rod (or a
> problem in the inline booster) causing a slight residual pressure in the
> hydraulics thus not letting the wheel cylinders return fully. Try
> cracking the bleeder to let any pressure go and then removing the drum
> with the bleeder still open.
>
> Failing that if you pay the airfare I'll come and sort it out. ;-)
>

heh I'm not that desperate :)
You're married, anyway :O

It's all new hydraulics (except the booster) & the movement of the wheel
cylinders was suspect at installation - the pistons did not seem too keen to go
all the way in, compared to the old ones.

The shoes & springs can only go on one way on the Series 11A 88", so it's not
the springs or shoes on incorrectly. I'll look at your idea of the wheel
cylinders next weekend. Thanks for the suggestion :)

--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.'
Catherine Aird
 
hmm, sounds like a dodgy wheel cylinder. Just need to make sure you park
where no reversing is req'd :). Serously though if the cylinder isn't
retracting fully and you have a ridged drum, i can't see an easy way out on
this. The last time i had this on an old SIIA i had to grind a hole in the
drum and crack it in two. Bit harsh but there wasn't another option at the
time, we tried for several days to remove the drum without damage but gave
up. If you can get the shoes past the ridge then you have a good chance of
getting the drum off with some effort and a good persuader. A mini ratchet
strap would help if enough of the shoes showing otherwise a large jubilee
clamp as used in the air-conditioning & ventilation systems etc would do to
clamp the shoes in. Another method is to actually undo the cylinder
completely and try to remove the drum/shoes/cylinder as one. Will you have
the same prob with the other side?

Wolfie
 
Duracell Bunny wrote:


>
> heh I'm not that desperate :)
> You're married, anyway :O

I was only offering to fix the brakes. :)

>
> It's all new hydraulics

Hence my suggestion about free play at the master cylinder - I've been
caught like that (but not on a Landrover).

--
EMB
 
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:42:50 +1000, Duracell Bunny
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Failing that if you pay the airfare I'll come and sort it out. ;-)
>>
>heh I'm not that desperate :)
>You're married, anyway :O

If you feel like spending a touch more on the airfair there are
probably a few of us over here who can work on series brakes too! :)

 
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:47:47 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:42:50 +1000, Duracell Bunny
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Failing that if you pay the airfare I'll come and sort it out. ;-)
>>>
>> heh I'm not that desperate :)
>> You're married, anyway :O
>
> If you feel like spending a touch more on the airfair there are
> probably a few of us over here who can work on series brakes too! :)

LOL - I read "aifair" as affair"

In any event, speaking personally I can't imagine there's anything I could
teach Karen - about the brakes silly :)

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 
In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] wrote:

> hmm, sounds like a dodgy wheel cylinder. Just need to make sure you park
> where no reversing is req'd :). Serously though if the cylinder isn't
> retracting fully and you have a ridged drum, i can't see an easy way out on
> this. The last time i had this on an old SIIA i had to grind a hole in the
> drum and crack it in two. Bit harsh but there wasn't another option at the
> time, we tried for several days to remove the drum without damage but gave
> up. If you can get the shoes past the ridge then you have a good chance of
> getting the drum off with some effort and a good persuader. A mini ratchet
> strap would help if enough of the shoes showing otherwise a large jubilee
> clamp as used in the air-conditioning & ventilation systems etc would do to
> clamp the shoes in. Another method is to actually undo the cylinder
> completely and try to remove the drum/shoes/cylinder as one. Will you have
> the same prob with the other side?
>
> Wolfie

There sould be a threaded hole on the drum (it's a daft thread)
that allows you to screw a bolt in to pull the drum off.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:10:27 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

> (it's a daft thread)

>
>Richard

I think thats a bit offensive and you should apologise to the OP.

david
 
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:54:48 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>
> rads <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:10:27 +0100, beamendsltd
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > (it's a daft thread)
>>
>> >
>> >Richard
>>
>> I think thats a bit offensive and you should apologise to the OP.
>>
>> david
>
>You have missed the smiley off........?
>
>Richard
Here it is

;-)

ps

Price for a 1996 P38a ABS brake accumulator (bit on top of ABS pump)?
No TC if that makes a difference.

David


 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> hmm, sounds like a dodgy wheel cylinder. Just need to make sure you park
>> where no reversing is req'd :). Serously though if the cylinder isn't
>> retracting fully and you have a ridged drum, i can't see an easy way out on
>> this. The last time i had this on an old SIIA i had to grind a hole in the
>> drum and crack it in two. Bit harsh but there wasn't another option at the
>> time, we tried for several days to remove the drum without damage but gave
>> up. If you can get the shoes past the ridge then you have a good chance of
>> getting the drum off with some effort and a good persuader. A mini ratchet
>> strap would help if enough of the shoes showing otherwise a large jubilee
>> clamp as used in the air-conditioning & ventilation systems etc would do to
>> clamp the shoes in. Another method is to actually undo the cylinder
>> completely and try to remove the drum/shoes/cylinder as one. Will you have
>> the same prob with the other side?
>>
>> Wolfie
>
> There sould be a threaded hole on the drum (it's a daft thread)
> that allows you to screw a bolt in to pull the drum off.
>
> Richard

Yes, there is - I've used that, I can get it off a little further than the
fastening screw it's designed for. Perhaps I should try a longer bolt there,
should have thought of that one myself, I've had to do that before now. I think
senility is setting in :(

As far as I recall, it's a 5/16 Whit thread. I can knock up a longer one in no time.

Thanks Richard

--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.'
Catherine Aird
 
In message <[email protected]>
rads <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:54:48 +0100, beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In message <[email protected]>
> > rads <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:10:27 +0100, beamendsltd
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > (it's a daft thread)
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Richard
> >>
> >> I think thats a bit offensive and you should apologise to the OP.
> >>
> >> david
> >
> >You have missed the smiley off........?
> >
> >Richard
> Here it is
>
> ;-)
>
> ps
>
> Price for a 1996 P38a ABS brake accumulator (bit on top of ABS pump)?
> No TC if that makes a difference.
>
> David
>
>

A snip at £116.32 inc VAT - Wabco make.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:32:29 +1000, Duracell Bunny wrote:

> No, the cylinders only go one way - the 88" has a one leading, one
> trailing shoe design.

My money would be on something not quite right about the leading/trailing
shoe(s), the position of the main brake springs (behind/infront of the
shoe web), shoe retainers or a combination as the brakes grab the moment
you reverse.

It could be a sticking cylinder but surely the slave rather than master.

If it's the master open the bleed screw at the offending wheel and the
brake spring pressure should let a bit of fluid out and the shoes in,
release the adjuster and they should go right in.

If it's a sticky slave you've had enough info on how to deal with that.
At least you can get some of the shoes visible to attempt squezing them
together some how.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
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