seatbelts

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> you might have got into trouble for using them on the road though.

Oh yes, I would never have drempt of it and warned the people I sold it to a
few weeks ago of that very point.

> There are 2 bits of legislation

What only two!, our lords and masters must be slipping

It's ridiculously complicated, one thing in particular that must be a grey
area is a vehicle that was designed to have rear seats as an optional extra
but weren't fitted in the factory. If you then fit the very same ones as
MIGHT have been factory fitted, are they considered factory fitted so must
have a belt to pass the MOT (assuming made after the date etc), or are they
in the same class as my camper seats that don't but can't carry passengers?.
It was clear for me as they were home made but how's an MOT tester to know
if they are identical to factory ones?.

The only thing that seems clear to me is that if you get unbelted seats past
the MOT they must be legal, and if you don't carry anyone in them they stay
legal!.

Greg

> It was clear for me as they were home made but how's an MOT tester to know
> if they are identical to factory ones?.

What I'm getting at is can you tell the MOT tester that you fitted these
original seats (without belts) after it was made and don't carry passengers
in them so he will pass them?, I doubt it but where's the distinction with
home made camper seats?.

Greg

Greg wrote:
>> It was clear for me as they were home made but how's an MOT tester
>> to know if they are identical to factory ones?.
>
> What I'm getting at is can you tell the MOT tester that you fitted
> these original seats (without belts) after it was made and don't
> carry passengers in them so he will pass them?, I doubt it but
> where's the distinction with home made camper seats?.
>
> Greg

A MOT tester will (should) check to see if the front seats fitted are secure
And that the backrests of all seats can be secured in their normal upright
position

he should then check the seat belts, for a motor caravan these are
Drivers and specified front passengers seat :- 3 point belt for each seat
Centre front seat :-3 point belt,lap belt or a disabled persons belt
Forward facing rear seats :- no requirement

and as we've already said side facing and rear facing don't need them

constuction and use doesn't really mention seats anyway

So as long as the seats you fitted are up to the job the tester can't fail them
as for being original how many series Land Rovers have alternative seats
in the front



--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green

On or around Sun, 6 Aug 2006 14:05:16 +0100, "Greg"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>> It was clear for me as they were home made but how's an MOT tester to know
>> if they are identical to factory ones?.
>
>What I'm getting at is can you tell the MOT tester that you fitted these
>original seats (without belts) after it was made and don't carry passengers
>in them so he will pass them?, I doubt it but where's the distinction with
>home made camper seats?.

campers may be a grey area. There are lots of grey areas around campers.

however, on the matter of seating - there's nothing says you can't have
sideways seats and no requirement that I can see that says they have to have
belts - but there are regulations preventing you carrying children in them
under certain conditions. It's probably legal to carry your own children in
them if there are no belted seats available, even.

carrying children on organised trips is a definite no-no. It's probably
also illegal to carry children on organised trips in the single side-facing
seats in the back of a disco I, which have belts and are immediately behind
the (padded) back of the middle row seats - frankly, I can't see that
travelling those seats *using the belts* is any more dangerous than any
other seat with a lap belt - for example, the middle seat in a disco is
nicely placed for a moderate-sized person to whip forward and crack they
head against the cubby box in between the front seats...



--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

> There are 2 bits of legislation - the MOT and C&U, and although to an
extent
> they overlap, they cover different areas. Then there are new bits about
> retrofitment of seta belts to buses and so forth, and a 12-seater 110 is
> classed as a minibus in terms of the number of passenger seats, and also
in
> terms of the driving licence - new class B licences issued after 1/1/97
> don't have "D1 - category restriction 1" which is passenger vehicles
> designed or adapted to carry more than 8 and not more then 16 passengers,
> the category restriction is "not for hire or reward". Therefore if you
have
> a 12 (or 10) seater and leave the seats in it in theory you're not allowed
> to drive it.
>

But why then wont Ken let me have a waiver for the Conjestion Charge ?.
His office states that as my V5 does'nt give the seat number I cant have one
??

On or around Sun, 06 Aug 2006 13:39:55 GMT, "Hirsty's"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>
>> There are 2 bits of legislation - the MOT and C&U, and although to an
>extent
>> they overlap, they cover different areas. Then there are new bits about
>> retrofitment of seta belts to buses and so forth, and a 12-seater 110 is
>> classed as a minibus in terms of the number of passenger seats, and also
>in
>> terms of the driving licence - new class B licences issued after 1/1/97
>> don't have "D1 - category restriction 1" which is passenger vehicles
>> designed or adapted to carry more than 8 and not more then 16 passengers,
>> the category restriction is "not for hire or reward". Therefore if you
>have
>> a 12 (or 10) seater and leave the seats in it in theory you're not allowed
>> to drive it.
>>
>
>But why then wont Ken let me have a waiver for the Conjestion Charge ?.
>His office states that as my V5 does'nt give the seat number I cant have one

you'll have to reclassify it as a minibus with 9 (or 11) passenger seats.
Note that this will probably screw your insurance and may restrict who can
drive it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

> you'll have to reclassify it as a minibus with 9 (or 11) passenger seats.
> Note that this will probably screw your insurance and may restrict who can
> drive it.


Just looked at his site and to prove it has 12 seats it gives a few options.
One is " Other methods" I wonder if photo evidence or LR bumpf would suffice
so long as it gives the 12 seat info ?

On or around Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:45:29 GMT, "Hirsty's"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>
>> you'll have to reclassify it as a minibus with 9 (or 11) passenger seats.
>> Note that this will probably screw your insurance and may restrict who can
>> drive it.
>
>
>Just looked at his site and to prove it has 12 seats it gives a few options.
>One is " Other methods" I wonder if photo evidence or LR bumpf would suffice
>so long as it gives the 12 seat info ?
>

worth a try.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

On 2006-08-06, Hirsty's <[email protected]> wrote:

> Japanese ruled that only even reg could be used on even date days etc. So
> they bought two cars ( odd / even ) and hence increased pollution !!

Yeah those crafty japanese and their driving-two-cars-at-once tricks! ;-)

I've never seen any reliable sources for that story, anyone got any?
I've heard it a few times but never seen it actually mentioned
properly, just passing references in other stories.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

"wireless" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> any url's available to provide a legal answer to the following?
>
> I'm getting a 1998 Land Rover 110 which has the bench seats in the rear,
> behind the second row of front facing seats.
>
> The front facing seats all have seatbelts.
>
> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay to
carry
> children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>
> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture then
> it's okay.
>
> tia
> Peter
>
>

Might be OK, but consider the people you carry !!

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:00:19 +0100, wireless <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,

How do you do?

> any url's available to provide a legal answer to the following?
>
> I'm getting a 1998 Land Rover 110 which has the bench seats in the rear,
> behind the second row of front facing seats.
>
> The front facing seats all have seatbelts.
>
> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay to
> carry
> children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>
> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture then
> it's okay.

That was my understanding too - however, the MOT station decided last year
that belts must be fitted - and so they were.

My kids almost invariably travel in the back on the bench seats (without
belts) - the middle row is used for stowage on such trips.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

>
> That was my understanding too - however, the MOT station decided last year
> that belts must be fitted - and so they were.


AFAIK, rear side bench seats are not a testable item. However at first MoT
they need to be type approved for some reason as it is a 12 seater.
Only forward facing seats are tested.

In message <[email protected]>
"wireless" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> any url's available to provide a legal answer to the following?
>
> I'm getting a 1998 Land Rover 110 which has the bench seats in the rear,
> behind the second row of front facing seats.
>
> The front facing seats all have seatbelts.
>
> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay to carry
> children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>
> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture then
> it's okay.
>
> tia
> Peter
>
>

Childern *have* to have seat belts, and booster cushions if under
a certain hight (even if they are 12 for example). Stupid new
law that has/is about to come into force to raise more revenue.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On or around Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:00:19 +0100, "wireless"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay to carry
>children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>
>My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture then
>it's okay.

If you carry children on any organised outing, even volunteer stuff like
scout camps, then side-facing are no longer legal with or without belts.

I think that for private use you're still OK. There is a safety issue,
though, with unbelted passengers in any seat.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:07:41 GMT, Hirsty's wrote:

> Might be OK, but consider the people you carry !!

Or any belted person in front, crushing such person between their seat
and belt as the unbelted person behind hurtles forward.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On 2006-08-05, wireless <[email protected]> wrote:

> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay
> to carry children (ages??) on those bench seats?

The rear seats will need seatbelts fitting to be legally useable, if a
vehicle is made before 1986 then no seatbelts need to be fitted but in
your case they do.

> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture
> then it's okay.

That's only the case subject to the cut-off date above.

I got this direct from DVLA on 0870 240 0010, who passed me on to the
Construction and Use regulations lot, who passed me straight back then
they passed me onto someone called gareth evans in DVLA who was part
of writing the legislation in the first place, according to him.

Also on the government website, www.open.gov.uk, I found some of this
by hunting around but don't have the URLs any more. It wasn't hard to
find.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

beamendsltd wrote:

>
> Childern *have* to have seat belts, and booster cushions if under
> a certain hight (even if they are 12 for example). Stupid new
> law that has/is about to come into force to raise more revenue.
>
> Richard

Richard,

I have lapbelts on one side of my 110 (9 seater, so two person bench
seat) and I'm looking for the same for the other side. How much are
they? The "sockets" are mounted on a plate in the middle, and the
"plug" comes from the outside of the bench seat (does that make sense?)

Ta,
Stuart

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:53:15 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:00:19 +0100, "wireless"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay to
>> carry
>> children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>>
>> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture
>> then
>> it's okay.
>
> If you carry children on any organised outing, even volunteer stuff like
> scout camps, then side-facing are no longer legal with or without belts.

Just for children?

> I think that for private use you're still OK. There is a safety issue,
> though, with unbelted passengers in any seat.

This particular safety issue applies to /any/ unsecured load IMO.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

wireless wrote:
> Hi,
>
> any url's available to provide a legal answer to the following?
>
> I'm getting a 1998 Land Rover 110 which has the bench seats in the
> rear, behind the second row of front facing seats.
>
> The front facing seats all have seatbelts.
>
> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay
> to carry children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>
> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture
> then it's okay.
>
> tia
> Peter


Side facing and rear facing seats are not required to be fitted with seatbelts
see http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_510.htm

--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green

On or around Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:21:07 +0100, "Andy.Smalley"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>wireless wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> any url's available to provide a legal answer to the following?
>>
>> I'm getting a 1998 Land Rover 110 which has the bench seats in the
>> rear, behind the second row of front facing seats.
>>
>> The front facing seats all have seatbelts.
>>
>> Q: If there are no seat belts fitted for the bench seats is it okay
>> to carry children (ages??) on those bench seats?
>>
>> My understanding is that if there are no belts fitted at manufacture
>> then it's okay.
>>
>> tia
>> Peter
>
>
>Side facing and rear facing seats are not required to be fitted with seatbelts
>see http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_510.htm

for the MOT. there are still restrictions on use, though.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)