S3 diesel pump timing gone very bad

My S3 was running underpowered and blowing a fair bit of blue, diesel smelling smoke.. I decicded to adjust the pump timing and things have gone from bad to worse..
Being a later model series 3, i was sure that the flywheel was stopped at exactly the 15 degree mark on the flywheel before i removed the pump.In doing this i did not pass the mark and rotate the flywheel back, i approached it from the direction of rotation only. When i took it (the pump) off what struck me was that the master spline looked to have been further past the 20 degree line from the horizontal as specified in haynes/workshop manual. If you ask me I'd say it was 25-30 degrees.
Nonetheless i inserted the tool and took the backlash up, turning the tool clockwise as specified. By now the master spline was at least 40-45 degrees past the horizontal mark scribed on the engine block. Re-positioning the pointer indicated an unachievable position of the pump, in that the pump is rotated as far clockwise as the mounts will allow. The pump cannot be positioned to the new position as directed by the pointer.
I re-aligned the spline on the pump to match that of the engine drive gear, and re-assembled the whole lot. To say that its billowing smoke now is an understatement, it's absolutley pumping it...!
Has anyone any ideas??
I'm thinking about using the tool to turn the drive gear anti-clockwise, back to 20 degrees and starting from there, but to be honest, I'm lost!!
I'd really appreciate any info anyone has on this one.
Thanks a lot - Pat

turn crank in D.O.R. till both N°1 valves are shut and piston is on its way up(comp stroke) continue turning till yer can see the 16° mark.

carefully align timing mark with pointer.


if yer miss it and go to far yule need to start again.

make sure yer looking at it stright caus eif yer slighty orf you could be out by 2° or 3°.
stick the drive gear in and mesh with camshaft gear so that when fully engaged yer master spline is abart 20° from center line of injun. then lock yer gear with grub screw.

remove cover from pump and turn spindle in D.O.R til yer 'A' line on drive plate aligns with mark on timing ring

stick pump in engine and with a wee mirror check the marks in the inspooking hole and ensure 'A' line is in correct place.its important yer drive plate and drive gear are held against driving side of teef while final adjustment and tightening is done. recheck by turning injun over by hand a few turns
use yer mirror to check 'A' line and mark on timing ring are aligned

when yer 'A' mark is correct the 16° flywheel mark should be inline with pointer. any timing error is multiplied cos of the 2:1 ratio of cam to crank.
so an error of 1mm at pump end will be 12mm at flywheel

always turn in D.O.R never backwards.

Thanks Slob, but is that to sort out the timing on the older type injection pumps? Mine's a CAV type, as so far as I know the only other timing mark (apart from the one on the flywheel) is the external one, mounted on on the engine block.

Reckon it sounds like i have to sort out the positioning of the master spline tho, mine was pretty much past 5 o' clock from the horizontal mark when I re-assembled 'er.

Thanks Slob, I'll let you know how I get on

I think you may have taken up the slack the wrong way and ended up retarding the point of injection rather than the other way about.

As you are obviously perfectly capable of handling the spanner-work involved, go back to it and try again. You WILL succeed.

Once it's heading for optimum you will know ..... you will also be impressed.

And when you get it right you will be well pleased how smart you are!

Go for it.

Charles.

Cheers Charles, I'm going to go at it again tommorow morning.. Before i do i have 2 questions:
I think I'm going to take off the oil pump and remove the grub screw that holds the vertical drive gear in place. This should allow better adjustment of the positioning of the master spline, rather than just rotating the vertical gear with the timing tool. Have you any advice on this theory?
The other thing is with the positioning of the master spline: for percise positioning of it I.E at 20 degrees past the horizontal mark on the engine block, should the line cut half-way accross the master spline, or do you think this is not too important?

Thanks for your help - Pat

Sorry for the delay ... my 'pooter was down because I fitted a new router and AOL decided to go in the huff.

When you lift the shaft up, it will have only a few gear teeth on it where the skew-gear on the camshaft drives it.

A good trick I think you could use BEFORE you take it out would be to get some load on it while a mate turns the crank, so you can take up all the slack in the wheels and chain as it comes to the 13° timing mark. I think you could manage to hold it back a bit with a screwdriver or something, but basically you would be trying to turn it ANTI-clockwise as the engine was trying to turn it clockwise.

As there are so few gearteeth involved, I think there is next to no chance of you ending up a tooth out.

But a bit of slack may need to be taken up by having the pump set a bit anti-clockwise from where it was when new.

Is that helpful at all?

CharlesY

Good stuff CharlesY, I understand it as this, when i get the flywheel round to the 15 degree mark(half way 'tween 16 and 14) I'll try and hold the vertical drive gear stationary. i could try this by inserting the timing tool and have someone turn the crank? You say this should take the slack up in the chain and other gears? I wonder though, if there's so few teeth on the vertical drive, is it worth the trouble of removing the oil pump housing so that i can get the vertical gear out. it sounds like that in any case , I'll be putting it back in, the same teeth meshing with the same teeth and therefore its (vertical drive gear's) position not having moved at all.

There's many factors in this job, I'm starting to see!

I'll plough on though, and keep you posted , thanks Charles

If the master spline looks near enough where it should be, I don't see a lot of point in taking the drive gear out - except it would show you just what "one tooth out" would look like either way.

There are eleven drive teeth, so one tooth out would be well over 30 degrees of rotation, more than the angle of an hour on a clock.

You want the master spline sitting at FOUR o'clock, not three or five.

My book says to turn the gear CLOCKWISE to take up any slack. I don't know if that is correct. Watch the shaft as your mate turns the crank, and you take the slack up the other way to the way the shaft turns. You'll see what is needed.

Good luck. I will be back Saturday about lunchtime.

CharlesY