running your car on vegtable oil

Hi

Ok definative Answer Time

Spoke a nice chap at C&E: If you use Veggie oil regardless of brand you must pay 27p (I'm sure it was 27p could have been less) litre to C&E or they will prosecute you for using illegal fuel !

So 44+27=71pence (Not so cheap now) LPG 41p @ BP on A11

Also spoke to a chap at DOT (where they test new gizmos/cars) who said if you burn Veggie oil in a Diesel engine you will lose performance and Fuel economy will suffer.

Ok a Diesel conversion is going to cost you in excess of £500 (Yes Diesels can run LPG) If you're thinking of alternate fuel then you're doing in excess of 12,000mpy anyhow so an LPG kit will pay for itself in a matter of months.

Charlotte

yes but how do they know how much you use?

if i use veg oil one trip, but not the next, how do i prove how much i have/not used in a period of time? is it down to individual trust??

I`m not sure that diesels can run on just gas alone. Some big trucks run a diesel / gas mix to increase power and fuel economy apparently. Although how using two types of fuel simultaneously achieves greater fuel economy is open to question!

Sounds like a diesel version of Nitrous Oxide if you ask me!

Glad to hear th 90 is still going strong!

You hit the nail on the head. LPG gives diesel a much cleaner burn, and its already 30% more efficient than petrol anyway. Also helps to cut down on emmissions. The LPG/diesel systems run at around 20/80 mix, which means that your emmissions drop by around 10%. As a bonus to lower fuel costs you also get an increase in MPG due to the higher efficiency of the burn.

Chris

A word of warning to all.

I have further researched the effects that Vegetable oil can have on a Land Rover. I have found that the only problem with running veggie oil through my Defender is the Lucas CAV pump.

If you have any Lucas CAV pump on your Land Rover you are unable to use veggie oil. This is due to the poor lubrication that veggie oil has within the injection pump, compared to diesel.

I have therefore started to dilute out the veggie oil that is in my car. I would advise anyone with a Lucas CAV pump to do the same.

I will be however looking into any fixs for this problem, I have read somewhere about alterations that can be made to the current pump. However I will be doing more research, and will let you all know my findings.

Rich

Bio diesel: its fairly simple to make, you need some old VEG oil, methanol and sodium hydroxide. Great stuff. If you know what you are doing you can make a small refinary to make it. (requires heating, mixing and settling times)

Someone stated there iveco ran better, yes it will by 10%, someone said they won't put it into their TD5, why not its better than diesel. Do you know what diesel is?

A number of years ago Mr Diesel made an engine, and it ran on peanut oil. The French saw this engine ticking over on peanuts and soon wanted them for their subs so they got into talks with Mr Diesel. BAD NEWS if they could sail about on engine power like that, so Mr Diesel ended up floating down the Themes with a knife in his back!

BP soon after realised they were going to have to catch the market so what did they do, they took a stinking filthy bi-product of pertol making, and named it; yes you guessed it DIESEL!

So why run your car on literaly waste when you could run it on quality oil! (you eat it dont you!)

Lets face it Diesel is a filthy fuel, the only reason the government allow it, is because if they stopped its use, the entire transport system would be jiggerd, trucks, trains, buses, taxis, all running on Diesel would not be able to be used without a conversion!

I do NOT advise running any diesel engine on veg oil/white spirit.
Vegetable oil "as it comes" is NOT suitable as a diesel fuel, because the molecules of the oil are far too long and other things. It leaves a bad residue in the cylinders, AND being a true vegetable oil it will damage all the rubber seals and pipes in the motor.

Bio-Diesel is a different chemical makeup once it has been "refined".

just listened to the jeremy vine show on bbc radio 2. they were talking about george w. bush's plans to create soya crops for running cars. one caller who phoned in says that he runs his diesel car (didnt say what make) on 100% veg oil, and puts in some diesel on colder days. he is paying around 27p a litre for his oil, and then at the end of tax year he has to fill in a simple form to declare on the usage of veg oil. he said it was about the same again, so he is paying 54p (including duty charge) per litre, against the 90p per litre for diesel.

link to todays (wednesday 8th june) show is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/radio2/aod.shtml?radio2/r2_vine_wed

The caller phoned in about 30 mins into the show, so use the links to fast forward 30 mins to hear his comments.

Hey big stoo hows the car running mine is still going ok fine on the mix tiga

how many tank fulls have you gone through? what mix are you using, i just went for the 50/50 as it was easier to work out all seems ok so far.

Yes it will work, but don't do it, first off, the rubber washers etc are not designed for veg oil, they are designed for hydro-carbons, different molecular structure.

You have to think about it this way, yes it will work but is it good for it?!?!

rubber washers?

i do around 20k miles per year, and i get about 380 miles per tank, so thats approx 52 fill ups a year. my typical fill up cost is around £55 (i fill up when 1/3 empty, which is about 62L), so thats £2,860 per year (at 88p a litre) on diesel.

if i save half that per year, and have to shell out a little extra on servicing, i aint that bothered.

With all the claims, counter claims, information (accurate and drivel)available on the subject it appears to me that the only way to find out if your diesel engine and all associated pumps, filters etc will cope with vege oil, or whatever else you pour in the tank, is to carry out a long term test. i.e. drive it for a VERY long time / distance and note the effects.

All that bearing in mind - can you afford the probably very costly repairs if it all goes wrong? Or maybe your sense of public service will take over and you`ll donate your vehicle to serving the public interest - any volunteers?

That aside as most early LR power units are in a low state of tune (read underpowered!) their tolerance of poor grade fuels should be reasonably high. So maybe any adverse effects of running "alternative fuels" will be lessened?

So come on then who can, hand on heart, say they have been running on vege oil for 50 000 miles with no adverse effects?

Anyone?

read this, it is a good source of info, and points you towards all the right government forms you need to fill in to be totally legal: http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/introduction.html

some stats on veg oil usage:

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/fuelsdatabase/database/index.php

Ive used it in my 200Tdi 90 and hated it it stank But yes it ran the same as it would on normal derv.

One of my customers used it in his 90 TD5 for 2 yrs , now im fitting him a second hand engine,
due to the fact that replacing his 5 injectors at about £250 each it was cheaper to get a 44,000 mile second hand engine.

My personal opinion is if you are going to use it then be very carefull.

Is the few pence per Ltr realy worth it ??

but it aint just a few pence, its half! if i save £1400 per year on diesel, and after 2 years i need to buy a recon engine, then so be it.

my engine has done 130k, so in a year or so i would probably be looking for a recon engine anyway i guess, whether if i use diesel/veg or just diesel.

saying that i might go back to 70/30 mix sooner rather than later after fully reading those articles i posted earlier.

well i would not have put veggie oil in a td5 anyway,they dont sell td5s in any arab state due to the fact that there grade of diesel is not good enough to run on so saying that and working on landrovers for a living would not put veggie oil in any car that did not have a basic fuel injection system,not ecm controlled injectors with a list price of £400 squid from LR parts,funny though as i have a new injector in my toolbox cant sell it for £75 quid on ebay,cant sell it any where infact! i have got 122k on the clock of my 300tdi,i have put in 4 tank fulls of mix,worked out fuel figures at 26 round local school run and shops and work and on a run i can get about 38 not bad for a played around with car that will pull away from a td5 but dont need to worry about 1300 quid for a new head when it warps or injectors going wrong or £500 pound ecms so basic engine will even run on a petrol mix cant say the same for the modern LR, i know ask all the range rover owners who still put unleaded in a TD6 engine and fork out £14k yes you read right £14k for a new engine fuel lines fuel tank and other bits all for the sake of £30 pound of fuel,1 customer asked for the fuel back out of the tank to put in his lawn mower,so if you havent got an older car thats basic dont run it on veggie oil oh and yes it stinks,tiga

if you can get another 4 injectors to go with the one you already have got i may be intrested

well if i had known you did need things like that i would have swapped 1 for an intercooler as i am sure i brought 1 off you on ebay,there is a surcharge on injectors now so dont get many slipping past the net,i do know there is a company selling a head with 5 injectors fitted for £1300 which is not bad dont think injectors are new though just reconditioned

ok m8 thanks for your help ill look around for the injector company if my customer is intrested .

But as you say they will prob be a fortune still so he may just stick with the engine


BTW was you happy with the intercooler ??

Hi yes regaurds the intercooler was well impressed and with all the rest off the mods it all goes to make a happier me, drive quite a few 300tdis t work and realise how sluggish they are unless you tinker a bit so yes i do recommend your services to people not sure if any come back to you but i do pass your name on.