RR P38 V8 Service : when are the big ones ?

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H

Henry!

Guest
Hi all,

I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the services are
planned. How many miles/kilometers between each service? When are the Big
Ones ?
Just so I can figure the right mileage to buy one !

TIA
--
Henry!
'95 2.5 DT RR (for now...)


 
"Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the services are
> planned. How many miles/kilometers between each service? When are the Big
> Ones ?
> Just so I can figure the right mileage to buy one !
>
> TIA

Every 6 and 12K, with the really big ones at 48K, 96K etc. With the
high fuel consumption, they are often bought by low-mileage users, so
may have been serviced by time rather than miles, and the actual
mileage may be irrelevant. These vehicles LIKE main dealer servicing
(to hold onto the resale value if nothing else), and a FDSH is very
important. If there is evidence that servicing has been neglected or
skimped, walk away, unless it's very cheap - and then expect to spend
what you saved on getting it put right. The 48K service is over
500GBP ISTR, if that is relevant to you, the intermediate ones
proportionally less. TBH, I would ignore when services are due, and
concentrate on getting one that's been looked-after, major service on
the horizon or not. After all, a service due is a known quantity
(perhaps use it as a negotiating lever) - a neglected RR is a
bottomless pit! No. 1 piece of advice (from experience) is - get one
with a warranty, preferably 12 months from a main dealer.

Good luck. I love mine, and wouldn't swap it even for a new RR. They
are fantastic vehicles, but tend towards niggly faults which can cost
a lot to put right. Owner maintenance isn't always an option.

HTH

Rich

Series 2a
RR 4.6 HSE V8
 
Hello Henry.

I have just sold my RR 4.6 HSE and the maintenance is carried out in the
following way:

Each 10.000 Km: I Change oil motor and filters and revision of levels of
liquids. About 200? in an official service Land Rover in Spain

Each 20.000 Km: I Change oil motor, change spark plugs, gearbox oil.etc.
About 400?

Each 40.000 Km: Main Service. About 900?

Regards



"Henry!" <[email protected]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the services
are


 
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> "Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the services
are
> > planned. How many miles/kilometers between each service? When are the
Big
> > Ones ?
> > Just so I can figure the right mileage to buy one !
> >
> > TIA
>
> Every 6 and 12K, with the really big ones at 48K, 96K etc. With the
> high fuel consumption, they are often bought by low-mileage users, so
> may have been serviced by time rather than miles, and the actual
> mileage may be irrelevant. These vehicles LIKE main dealer servicing
> (to hold onto the resale value if nothing else), and a FDSH is very
> important. If there is evidence that servicing has been neglected or
> skimped, walk away, unless it's very cheap - and then expect to spend
> what you saved on getting it put right. The 48K service is over
> 500GBP ISTR, if that is relevant to you, the intermediate ones
> proportionally less. TBH, I would ignore when services are due, and
> concentrate on getting one that's been looked-after, major service on
> the horizon or not. After all, a service due is a known quantity
> (perhaps use it as a negotiating lever) - a neglected RR is a
> bottomless pit! No. 1 piece of advice (from experience) is - get one
> with a warranty, preferably 12 months from a main dealer.
>
> Good luck. I love mine, and wouldn't swap it even for a new RR. They
> are fantastic vehicles, but tend towards niggly faults which can cost
> a lot to put right. Owner maintenance isn't always an option.
>
> HTH
>
> Rich
>
> Series 2a
> RR 4.6 HSE V8

Thanks a lot Rich, this really helped me.

I have seen some good ones (even special editions like Westminster or
Autobiography) around 20,000 Euros (around 13,000 GBP, IIRC) with around
65,000 km (should be around 40,000mls).99 models.
I really enjoyed the 2,5 DT, but it's my wife's second car that she bought
for me, and now she wants to sell it. So, it's a good opportunity to buy a
V8 !!!
I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced. I'll always be asking
for a COMPLETE maintenance book.
You are right about what has been done being more important that what is to
be done, but if the Range needs a big service after the sale, then I have to
look after the price.
Thanks again,
--
Henry!


 
"Ascot" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> Hello Henry.
>
> I have just sold my RR 4.6 HSE and the maintenance is carried out in the
> following way:
>
> Each 10.000 Km: I Change oil motor and filters and revision of levels of
> liquids. About 200? in an official service Land Rover in Spain
>
> Each 20.000 Km: I Change oil motor, change spark plugs, gearbox oil.etc.
> About 400?
>
> Each 40.000 Km: Main Service. About 900?
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> "Henry!" <[email protected]> escribió en el mensaje
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the services
> are


Gracias !
What is weird is that it's the same frequency for the diesel engine...
--
Henry!
Q. Why do some bands even have bass players?
A. To translate for the drummer.


 

>I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced. I'll always be asking
>for a COMPLETE maintenance book.

Far from it. The 4.6, 4.0 and 3.9 both tend to suffer from cracked
liners / porous blocks. This seems to affect Range Rovers far more
than Discoverys, due to the different engine management setup.

I'd be very nervous buying a P38 / late Classic V8 Range Rover on its
original engine... Did Land Rover ever fix this, even on the later
P38's?
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
Henry! wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot Rich, this really helped me.

No worries. Mail me off-group at [email protected] if you
want to take the conversation further.

> I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced.

Yes and no. As Tim has said, there is an issue with porous blocks on the
4.6 especially. Any hint of losing water either during a test drive or
otherwise, and you walk away fast. Having said that, new short motors are
available from such as RPI - if you got a "porous" 4.6 cheaply enough, it
could be worthwhile.

Aside from this issue, general opinion seems to be that if they are
correctly maintained (especially oil changes), they can go to 200K miles
with no probs.


--

Rich

Series 2a
RR 4.6
V8 trialler
dog, wife, kids, whatever


 
I'm due for my 24000 mile service in a few hundred miles, and I was quoted
813GBP by a main dealer, being told that 'it's a major service'. It's a 2002
4L auto petrol Westminster.

I knew it wouldn't be exactly cheap, but 813GBP is a lot more than the
300GBP that non dealers offer. Why the big difference? Just to pay for their
showroom water features? I wouldn't mind if it were a slight increase over
the non-dealer, but 272% is a bit extreme don't you think? It's nearly a
months petrol... :)

I'm not sure whether to bite the bullet, or just go for the more attractive
non-dealer service.

Neil


"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the services
are
> > planned. How many miles/kilometers between each service? When are the
Big
> > Ones ?
> > Just so I can figure the right mileage to buy one !
> >
> > TIA
>
> Every 6 and 12K, with the really big ones at 48K, 96K etc. With the
> high fuel consumption, they are often bought by low-mileage users, so
> may have been serviced by time rather than miles, and the actual
> mileage may be irrelevant. These vehicles LIKE main dealer servicing
> (to hold onto the resale value if nothing else), and a FDSH is very
> important. If there is evidence that servicing has been neglected or
> skimped, walk away, unless it's very cheap - and then expect to spend
> what you saved on getting it put right. The 48K service is over
> 500GBP ISTR, if that is relevant to you, the intermediate ones
> proportionally less. TBH, I would ignore when services are due, and
> concentrate on getting one that's been looked-after, major service on
> the horizon or not. After all, a service due is a known quantity
> (perhaps use it as a negotiating lever) - a neglected RR is a
> bottomless pit! No. 1 piece of advice (from experience) is - get one
> with a warranty, preferably 12 months from a main dealer.
>
> Good luck. I love mine, and wouldn't swap it even for a new RR. They
> are fantastic vehicles, but tend towards niggly faults which can cost
> a lot to put right. Owner maintenance isn't always an option.
>
> HTH
>
> Rich
>
> Series 2a
> RR 4.6 HSE V8


 

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Henry! wrote:
> >
> > Thanks a lot Rich, this really helped me.
>
> No worries. Mail me off-group at [email protected] if you
> want to take the conversation further.
>
> > I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced.
>
> Yes and no. As Tim has said, there is an issue with porous blocks on the
> 4.6 especially. Any hint of losing water either during a test drive or
> otherwise, and you walk away fast. Having said that, new short motors are
> available from such as RPI - if you got a "porous" 4.6 cheaply enough, it
> could be worthwhile.
>
> Aside from this issue, general opinion seems to be that if they are
> correctly maintained (especially oil changes), they can go to 200K miles
> with no probs.
>

That's not the general opinion around here...

I've no experience with porous blocks, but can report personal experience of
a problem with the liners moving in the block.
The top of the liner is very thin (it flanges out), & a gap here means that
there's a path between the combustion chamber & the cooling system. The
cooling system gets pressurised when the engine's running ( & so loses
coolant). When she ain't running, the built-up pressure forces coolant back
into the combustion chamber, producing a very clean bore (good?), & poor
starts (not so good). Obviously, the longer this goes on, the worse it gets,
with attendant overheating problems & eventual damage.
I was told this was a common fault, on 3.9's, 4.0's & 4.6's, & that the cure
was a new block; refitting liners doesn't seem to last- it has to be done
with heat, & that usually messes up adjacent bores.

My vehicle was serviced regularly, btw.


'98 RR 4.0 bog standard
new motor after 83,000 k's (thanks LR Australia!)


 
"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>
> >I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced. I'll always be
asking
> >for a COMPLETE maintenance book.
>
> Far from it. The 4.6, 4.0 and 3.9 both tend to suffer from cracked
> liners / porous blocks. This seems to affect Range Rovers far more
> than Discoverys, due to the different engine management setup.
>
> I'd be very nervous buying a P38 / late Classic V8 Range Rover on its
> original engine... Did Land Rover ever fix this, even on the later
> P38's?
> --
>
The information I have on this topic, coming from other NG an forums, is
that the porous engine is suupposed to be on the early P38 models (pre 99).
The cracked liner is however a 'known problem'. Let's just hope...
--
Henry!





> Tim Hobbs
>
> '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
> '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
> '03 Volvo V70
>
> My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
> Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
> Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com


 
"Chaos Illumination" <[email protected]> a écrit
dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> I'm due for my 24000 mile service in a few hundred miles, and I was quoted
> 813GBP by a main dealer, being told that 'it's a major service'. It's a
2002
> 4L auto petrol Westminster.
>
> I knew it wouldn't be exactly cheap, but 813GBP is a lot more than the
> 300GBP that non dealers offer. Why the big difference? Just to pay for
their
> showroom water features? I wouldn't mind if it were a slight increase over
> the non-dealer, but 272% is a bit extreme don't you think? It's nearly a
> months petrol... :)
>
> I'm not sure whether to bite the bullet, or just go for the more
attractive
> non-dealer service.
>
> Neil

OUCH ! That hurts !
Of course, the only good thing that I see in having the service done at a
Land Rover Dealership is that it's good for resale value. That's for all
cars... Now for a RR, with all the known reliability problems, I tend to
think that LR servicing is a must. That's what I would ask buying one,
anyway.
Of course, it's better to have a well 'home' maintained vehicle than a por
'dealership' maintained one, but unless you're good in mechanics, it's hard
to tell
--
Henry!

>
>
> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm planning to buy a RR 4.6 HSE, and I'd like to know how the
services
> are
> > > planned. How many miles/kilometers between each service? When are the
> Big
> > > Ones ?
> > > Just so I can figure the right mileage to buy one !
> > >
> > > TIA
> >
> > Every 6 and 12K, with the really big ones at 48K, 96K etc. With the
> > high fuel consumption, they are often bought by low-mileage users, so
> > may have been serviced by time rather than miles, and the actual
> > mileage may be irrelevant. These vehicles LIKE main dealer servicing
> > (to hold onto the resale value if nothing else), and a FDSH is very
> > important. If there is evidence that servicing has been neglected or
> > skimped, walk away, unless it's very cheap - and then expect to spend
> > what you saved on getting it put right. The 48K service is over
> > 500GBP ISTR, if that is relevant to you, the intermediate ones
> > proportionally less. TBH, I would ignore when services are due, and
> > concentrate on getting one that's been looked-after, major service on
> > the horizon or not. After all, a service due is a known quantity
> > (perhaps use it as a negotiating lever) - a neglected RR is a
> > bottomless pit! No. 1 piece of advice (from experience) is - get one
> > with a warranty, preferably 12 months from a main dealer.
> >
> > Good luck. I love mine, and wouldn't swap it even for a new RR. They
> > are fantastic vehicles, but tend towards niggly faults which can cost
> > a lot to put right. Owner maintenance isn't always an option.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > Series 2a
> > RR 4.6 HSE V8
>
>


 
"Natalie Drest" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote

> I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced.
> >
> > Yes and no. As Tim has said, there is an issue with porous blocks on the
> > 4.6 especially. Any hint of losing water either during a test drive or
> > otherwise, and you walk away fast.
> >
> > Aside from this issue, general opinion seems to be that if they are
> > correctly maintained (especially oil changes), they can go to 200K miles
> > with no probs.
> >
>
> That's not the general opinion around here...
>
> I've no experience with porous blocks, but can report personal experience of
> a problem with the liners moving in the block.
> The top of the liner is very thin (it flanges out), & a gap here means that
> there's a path between the combustion chamber & the cooling system. The
> cooling system gets pressurised when the engine's running ( & so loses
> coolant). When she ain't running, the built-up pressure forces coolant back
> into the combustion chamber, producing a very clean bore (good?), & poor
> starts (not so good). Obviously, the longer this goes on, the worse it gets,
> with attendant overheating problems & eventual damage.
> I was told this was a common fault, on 3.9's, 4.0's & 4.6's, & that the cure
> was a new block; refitting liners doesn't seem to last- it has to be done
> with heat, & that usually messes up adjacent bores.
>
> My vehicle was serviced regularly, btw.
>
>
> '98 RR 4.0 bog standard
> new motor after 83,000 k's (thanks LR Australia!)

That's why I said "Any hint of losing water either during a test drive
or otherwise, and you walk away fast." Sorry I wasn't more specific.

Rich

RR 4.6
 
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> "Natalie Drest" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > I heard that the V8 is bulletproof if well serviced.
> > >
> > > Yes and no. As Tim has said, there is an issue with porous blocks on
the
> > > 4.6 especially. Any hint of losing water either during a test drive
or
> > > otherwise, and you walk away fast.
> > >
>
> That's why I said "Any hint of losing water either during a test drive
> or otherwise, and you walk away fast." Sorry I wasn't more specific.
>
> Rich
>
> RR 4.6

By the way, how do you recognize water from the engine and water from the AC
condensation ???
--Henry


 
"Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> By the way, how do you recognize water from the engine and water from the AC
> condensation ???
> --Henry

Water from the aircon is deposited under the car, roughly in line with
the footwells. In hot/humid weather, there can be an alarming amount,
but it will be pure water - taste it if necessary to confirm (yes I
have done this).

Water from the engine, if it is escaping, will be green with
antifreeze (taste test not recommended). However, with the V8
problems outlined above, it won't escape visibly but will be lost
within the engine, into the combustion chambers and out of the
exhaust. The usual symptom will be a persistent loss of water level
in the system rather than an obvious leak. My test would be: check
water level in overflow tank, good test drive to get thoroughly warmed
up, allow the engine to cool, then check water again. If there is any
water loss, there is a problem.

HTH

Rich
 
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> "Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > By the way, how do you recognize water from the engine and water from
the AC
> > condensation ???
> > --Henry
>
> Water from the aircon is deposited under the car, roughly in line with
> the footwells. In hot/humid weather, there can be an alarming amount,
> but it will be pure water - taste it if necessary to confirm (yes I
> have done this).
>
> Water from the engine, if it is escaping, will be green with
> antifreeze (taste test not recommended). However, with the V8
> problems outlined above, it won't escape visibly but will be lost
> within the engine, into the combustion chambers and out of the
> exhaust. The usual symptom will be a persistent loss of water level
> in the system rather than an obvious leak. My test would be: check
> water level in overflow tank, good test drive to get thoroughly warmed
> up, allow the engine to cool, then check water again. If there is any
> water loss, there is a problem.
>
> HTH
>
> Rich

Well, many thanks, this has been very helpful.
I'll keep y'all posted whenever I find the real diamond (and as soon as I
sell the diesel one, of course ! )
--
Henry!


 
The cooling system pressurisation problem can be detected thusly:
Engine: cold
Expansion tank coolant level: a bit low
Open expansion tank lid (slowly); listen for hiss. If water level rises, &
an obvious depressurisation occurs (air rushes out), the system was
pressurised. Probable (in my opinion) cylinder liner problem.
Back away from prospective purchase 'yes, thanks very much, i'm afraid I
have to be off now'

or ask them to throw in a new engine

Natalie

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Henry!" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > By the way, how do you recognize water from the engine and water from
the AC
> > condensation ???
> > --Henry
>
> Water from the aircon is deposited under the car, roughly in line with
> the footwells. In hot/humid weather, there can be an alarming amount,
> but it will be pure water - taste it if necessary to confirm (yes I
> have done this).
>
> Water from the engine, if it is escaping, will be green with
> antifreeze (taste test not recommended). However, with the V8
> problems outlined above, it won't escape visibly but will be lost
> within the engine, into the combustion chambers and out of the
> exhaust. The usual symptom will be a persistent loss of water level
> in the system rather than an obvious leak. My test would be: check
> water level in overflow tank, good test drive to get thoroughly warmed
> up, allow the engine to cool, then check water again. If there is any
> water loss, there is a problem.
>
> HTH
>
> Rich


 
On or around Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:43:06 +1000, "Natalie Drest"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>The cooling system pressurisation problem can be detected thusly:
>Engine: cold
>Expansion tank coolant level: a bit low
>Open expansion tank lid (slowly); listen for hiss. If water level rises, &
>an obvious depressurisation occurs (air rushes out), the system was
>pressurised. Probable (in my opinion) cylinder liner problem.
>Back away from prospective purchase 'yes, thanks very much, i'm afraid I
>have to be off now'

the engine does have to be genuinely cold though, as the system will stay
pressurised for some time after it's at operating temperature, even if the
engine only feels "warm".

by the same token, one that *isn't* pressurised when hot is equally likely
to have some kind of problem, in that it should be.
 
"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> On or around Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:43:06 +1000, "Natalie Drest"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >The cooling system pressurisation problem can be detected thusly:
> >Engine: cold
> >Expansion tank coolant level: a bit low
> >Open expansion tank lid (slowly); listen for hiss. If water level rises,
&
> >an obvious depressurisation occurs (air rushes out), the system was
> >pressurised. Probable (in my opinion) cylinder liner problem.
> >Back away from prospective purchase 'yes, thanks very much, i'm afraid I
> >have to be off now'
>
> the engine does have to be genuinely cold though, as the system will stay
> pressurised for some time after it's at operating temperature, even if the
> engine only feels "warm".
>
> by the same token, one that *isn't* pressurised when hot is equally likely
> to have some kind of problem, in that it should be.

Well, thanks a lot to both of you. I am now a specialist !
No kidding, this will certainly help me in finding the right car.
Thanks again !
--
Henry!
--
"Pleasure in a thing of beauty is the essence of a good life."
Zino Davidoff


 
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