RFC - Diagnostic Software

Hi All,

I would say that I am the proud owner of a P38 that in true RR style has spent many a day in the dealers' and other garages I have decided to bite the proverbial bullet and write my own diagnostic software.

As a professional software engineer doing this presents no real problem but also being a realist I don't want to reinvent the wheel and waste my time. Yes, I know there is other software out there that does this but as I understand at cost where my implementation would be free (but PayPal donations would of course not be refused).

With that said I would be very interested to hear what you had to say about it.

Would you be willing to use such software?
What Devices and Operating Systems would you like to see it run on?
What features would you like to see in it?
What sort of interface would you like? e.g. A GUI or Console?
Would you be willing to help test it?
Would you be willing to help develop it?

As an aside if the consensus is that this application be written then I will set up a website where you can read about the progress and download any current version(s) of the software and set up a Bug Tracker, well for tracking bugs.

In the meantime I look forward to hearing from you.

woogoo said:

Hi All,

I would say that I am the proud owner of a P38 that in true RR style has spent many a day in the dealers' and other garages I have decided to bite the proverbial bullet and write my own diagnostic software.

As a professional software engineer doing this presents no real problem but also being a realist I don't want to reinvent the wheel and waste my time. Yes, I know there is other software out there that does this but as I understand at cost where my implementation would be free (but PayPal donations would of course not be refused).

With that said I would be very interested to hear what you had to say about it.

Would you be willing to use such software?
What Devices and Operating Systems would you like to see it run on?
What features would you like to see in it?
What sort of interface would you like? e.g. A GUI or Console?
Would you be willing to help test it?
Would you be willing to help develop it?

As an aside if the consensus is that this application be written then I will set up a website where you can read about the progress and download any current version(s) of the software and set up a Bug Tracker, well for tracking bugs.

In the meantime I look forward to hearing from you.

Click to expand...

I reckon you're gonna be overrun with takers, there will be plenty here that will benefit.

Hiya
i would be interested in helping test it

I am An IT engineer by trade.

I have a P38 2.5 DSE and A P38 4.6 HSE with blown engine which is a project for a diesel conversion

i reckon Air suspension
BECM module
Engine ECU
Hevac

for a starter
but there are lots of memebers on it who have had theirs for a lot longer than me, these bits just seem to cause the most trouble

keep me posted
Ian

this will be interesting to see do a win/linux with gui using usb type obd connector and your on a winner.

have you considered what you are attempting carefully?

have you written diagnostic software before?

there are several protocols used on the p38, you need to find out what they are, and work out what information is bieng passed.

i would like to see it work on elm327 vag com if possible for the k line stuff.

or even as rsw solutions did in the eas suite a straight rs232 to obd lead or several leads depending on which module you were interogating.

i would be more than happy to test software and make up a lead myself if required.

i already have elm327 and vag com (309)

i think its gotta be a program for the hevac!!!

gavbriggs said:

have you considered what you are attempting carefully?)

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Yes, but I certainly do not want to come across as something I am not, and that is technically literate with the Range Rover Series. I will need information on protocols, connectors etc.

gavbriggs said:

have you written diagnostic software before?

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Not diagnostic but I spend my working day writing industrial strength applications for power generation.

gavbriggs said:

there are several protocols used on the p38, you need to find out what they are, and work out what information is bieng passed.

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Well this is where you guys come in. As I said above I am not an RR technician nor do I purport to be one, so the way I look at it is since this software is for the benefit of the community then I'm of the opinion that the community should at least contribute.

I have no objections to doing the grunt work and some research, but I would appreciate descriptions of connector types and pinouts form those that already have this information.

gavbriggs said:

i would like to see it work on elm327 vag com if possible for the k line stuff.

or even as rsw solutions did in the eas suite a straight rs232 to obd lead or several leads depending on which module you were interogating.

Click to expand...

Well this would be the ultimate goal, to allow the user the option to pick the connector type and let the software do the rest, of course that's not to say the system couldn't support a scan mode to allow auto detection.

gavbriggs said:

i would be more than happy to test software and make up a lead myself if required.

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This is great news, and since you obviously have your head on the right way make an ideal contributor.

fanatic said:

this will be interesting to see do a win/linux with gui using usb type obd connector and your on a winner.

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Well as I said being a realist I know that not everyone uses (or even likes) Windows so with that said the application will be built using Nokia's Qt which allows multi platform support. Qt - A cross-platform application and UI framework If anyone is interested.

Cavey_P38 said:

Hiya
i would be interested in helping test it

Click to expand...

This is what I like to hear, great news.

Cavey_P38 said:

I am An IT engineer by trade.

I have a P38 2.5 DSE and A P38 4.6 HSE with blown engine which is a project for a diesel conversion

Click to expand...

It gets better.

Cavey_P38 said:

i reckon Air suspension
BECM module
Engine ECU
Hevac

for a starter
but there are lots of memebers on it who have had theirs for a lot longer than me, these bits just seem to cause the most trouble

Click to expand...

Yes I agree, would there be a prefered order of development here? i.e. ECU first, Hevac second etc.?

ssmn1234 said:

I reckon you're gonna be overrun with takers, there will be plenty here that will benefit.

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This in honesty was what I was hoping for; on the condition that there were also givers as well. I can't do all of this on my own and it would IMHO be selfish of anyone to expect me to, so with the help of the Range Rover community we can all benefit from each others' efforts.

is there any device that can monitor the pins that are used on the obd connector?

we can isolate the ones used for general stuff/engine ecu quite easily as the engine ecu uses iso 9141-2 protocol.

obviously youre gonna need a copy of the rave from The Green Oval - Downloads | Land Rover Data

we need keep to the same sections of rave, i'm pretty sure the electrical system is the same for the 97 and 99 regarding what we are looking at.

now in the '97 electrical circuit diagrams section D3, theres a diagram of the eas ecu connections and the airbag connections.

(sorry cant extract the page, dunno how!!!)

notice it refers to pins11 and 12 as being for the eas control module.

looking at the diagram below, pins 11 and 12 are on the cable diag. rsw gives.

i know its not the discovery of the centuary but it sets us on the path to find out what info is bieng sent and where to.



now if we can get a device to monitor the data on the pins, then maybe someone with diagnostics kit would be willing to record data for given tasks.

i.e wakeup of device, request for status(fault codes) and reset/clear codes. i mean thats gonna be the most important to most people, resetting faults?



on there it shows the blank pins, now if we can marry up the pins to the modules then monitor the data sent/tecieved then you can write a program that can emulate that data and there ya, thats easy innit?

or is it not as easy as all that??? doubt it can be much harder???

it seems the air bags and eas are on thier own pins, everything else is on the same pins as the 9141-2 standard.

sooooo, its just a case of monitoring some data then decifering it????

when the eas buddy resets the eas, what exactly does it do? supply a voltage for a certain period???

gavbriggs said:

is there any device that can monitor the pins that are used on the obd connector?

Click to expand...

When you say 'monitor' I assume you mean when the connected pins go Hi/Lo well not on the market that I know of. Does anyone?

gavbriggs said:

we can isolate the ones used for general stuff/engine ecu quite easily as the engine ecu uses iso 9141-2 protocol.

Click to expand...

Yes, I don't know if these fault codes are listed in the the document linked below but I have a lot of them in my workshop manual.

obviously youre gonna need a copy of the rave from The Green Oval - Downloads | Land Rover Data

I'll download CDs 1,2 and 3 later.

gavbriggs said:

we need keep to the same sections of rave, i'm pretty sure the electrical system is the same for the 97 and 99 regarding what we are looking at.

Click to expand...

Not to sure what these sections are until I get a chance to look at the downloads of these CDs.

gavbriggs said:

now in the '97 electrical circuit diagrams section D3, theres a diagram of the eas ecu connections and the airbag connections.

(sorry cant extract the page, dunno how!!!)

notice it refers to pins11 and 12 as being for the eas control module.

looking at the diagram below, pins 11 and 12 are on the cable diag. rsw gives.

i know its not the discovery of the centuary but it sets us on the path to find out what info is bieng sent and where to.

Click to expand...

Well it is a start.

gavbriggs said:

now if we can get a device to monitor the data on the pins, then maybe someone with diagnostics kit would be willing to record data for given tasks.

Click to expand...

Well a bit of inside information here would be good. But the ISO 9141/2 Protocol is a serial protocol so putting a packet sniffer on the port is a trivial task. Working out what it captures may well be another matter!

gavbriggs said:

i.e wakeup of device, request for status(fault codes) and reset/clear codes. i mean thats gonna be the most important to most people, resetting faults?

Click to expand...

Well I'm going to show (and probably not for the first time) my lack of RR technicalities here in that I don't know (yet) what is involved in resetting, these code. Chances are it's a simple matter of sending an OP code via the Serial Interface and et voila!

gavbriggs said:

on there it shows the blank pins, now if we can marry up the pins to the modules then monitor the data sent/tecieved then you can write a program that can emulate that data and there ya, thats easy innit?

Click to expand...

Well from other replies in this topic there would appear to be various areas of interrogation. i.e. the ECU, BeCM etc. Now we need to establish how this is done and what needs to be sent down the wire to tell the system we want to 'talk' to the 'BeCM' and not the ECU or is this done via the ODB code Sent/Received. As I understand it there is only ONE point of connection to the diagnostic system, and in my RR it's in the Passenger's footwell. Am I right?

gavbriggs said:

or is it not as easy as all that??? doubt it can be much harder???

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Well the secret to this application's success is the understanding of the protocol, and with that I see no reason why we can't succeed.

I mean imagine how neat it would be to go out to your Range Rover with your Symbian powered mobile phone, plug in a mini USB adapter to it and read off the fault code. Mmmm, nice.

gavbriggs said:

it seems the air bags and eas are on thier own pins, everything else is on the same pins as the 9141-2 standard.

Click to expand...

Mmmm, Does this mean that we need multiple cables to do a 'complete' read of the system? Or does a fully wired cable support everything?

gavbriggs said:

sooooo, its just a case of monitoring some data then decifering it?

Click to expand...

Yes and no. If there is more than one protocol used then the application will need to support them once they are identified.

gavbriggs said:

when the eas buddy resets the eas, what exactly does it do? supply a voltage for a certain period???

Click to expand...

Now this is one question I can't answer yet, but someone out there may well be able to. I may be wrong but how would the system know what was meant when the pins carrying the voltage went hi. If it was based on time then a fraction of a mis-time could reset something you didn't want resetting! It would make sense to me to send an OP Code to the system to avoid any ambiguities.

with the eas buddy i was thinking on the lines of the general 'paper clip' trick that is used in some cars, it aint scientific but it has had some success over the years. theres no codes in a paper clip.

dunno what damage could be done by a paperclip but it was a line of enquirey

i'm interested in the symbian app but its a pain setting up a host port to plug a usb cable in as far as i have understood.

what phones you got on symbian, i have n96, n95 and satio, i have some older ones too somewhere. (another interest of mine)

i think we will need multiple cables or can you get certain programs to talk on certain pins, usb only has 4 and the case gnd, so its gonna be difficult to put into one cable.

there is only the obd socket in the footwell, according to the wiring everything comes back to that one point.

i know rovers (75/mg zt/mgf) all use the k-line/k-bus for thier comunication. i know a fella who has connected to his fuel burning heater (its also on the k-line/k-bus) with a device called a resler i, its an i-bus device, used in bmw's i believe, the i bus is usually for media devices but it seems it will connect on the k-line/k-bus and talk to devices, maybe of some use?

sounds like a **** up

My view is that since so many of us already own cables to run the EASUnlock software suite, it would be great if the same cable and os's could be used.

I wouldn't worry too much about writing a module for the EAS as an excellent application already exists for this.

It might be worth getting in touch with the dude from RSW Solutions (I think that's what they're called) and seeing if he has any suggestions for you? He might even let you include his module if that was feasible.

Good luck - I'm certainly interested in whatever you come up with.

Guy

fanatic said:

sounds like a **** up

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What exactly are you referring to here?

I know what we are attempting to do isn't a trivial task, but I do think it's in our (as RR Owners) to at least pursue the matter with some initial research.

And as a seasoned veteran of the Forum it would be great if you were willing to contribute any skills you deemed suitable, for the betterment of the project.

kooky_guy said:

My view is that since so many of us already own cables to run the EASUnlock software suite, it would be great if the same cable and os's could be used.

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Well as previously noted the intention here is to allow the software to run on anything from Windows to Linux it will just me a matter of selecting the correct build from the download site.

kooky_guy said:

I wouldn't worry too much about writing a module for the EAS as an excellent application already exists for this.

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Can you provide some information / links to this please.

kooky_guy said:

It might be worth getting in touch with the dude from RSW Solutions (I think that's what they're called) and seeing if he has any suggestions for you? He might even let you include his module if that was feasible.

Click to expand...

What module is this? I see no obvious references to software on his site, but collaberation with someone like RSW would be great.

kooky_guy said:

Good luck - I'm certainly interested in whatever you come up with.

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That again is good to hear.

woogoo said:

Well as previously noted the intention here is to allow the software to run on anything from Windows to Linux it will just me a matter of selecting the correct build from the download site.



Can you provide some information / links to this please.

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Here you go:

http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=56

Certainly a lot of P38 owners on here have this.

Guy