Datatek
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In tank pump died would be my bet. Loss of sync does not happen while the engine is actually running.
P38A [RESOLVED!] P38 DSE non start - fuel issue
- Thread starter P38_OTMS
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tomcat59alan
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That is a possibility but I personally think there could be other causes . The problem lies with the op disconnecting the fuel lines to see if there was fuel at the filter.he said there wasn't . If he checks Wammers "how to" to see if the pump is operational then we can proceed in a logical fashion. If the pump is working then does the fuel exit the filter? if not change the filter. If the pump is not working then it's time to see why not. Could be electrical feed which is why I asked Wammers what supplies the power to the pump (year dependant). If the pump is working and fuel is exiting the filter housing then it is time to check the fuell cut off solenoid .If that is operating correctly then it's time to crack off the injector pipes at the injectors and crank the engine until fuel is seen to leak from them.tighten the injector pipes and it should start. In deference to our member in Sri Lanka I have had a p38 that would run with a u/s intank fuel pump. I had to keep the tank at least 1/4 full and it was a bastard to start.
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All very true....
Our Sri Lankan compadre is partially right, a P38 Diesel with a reasonable FIP, in favourable conditions (i.e. a tank over a 1/4 full etc) will most likely start - he seems to claim that ALL will start.....not necessarily so....and as such is not sage diagnostic advice.
Stating that a Diesel P38 will start with a duff ITP is not sound advice.....yes they *can* start, but it is not a sound and 100% reliable way of diagnosing issues....the P38 was fitted with a lift pump for a reason.
As you, I and Wammers have advised is to check why there is no fuel flow to the filter......regardless of if our Sri Lankan compadre says that is should still start - it may, it may not - but if there IS fuel to the filter then that is tick box one on the checklist....
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Fuel to the filter is easy. Slacken it off, put an ice-cream tub underneath and turn the ignition until the glows come on. Squinting under the bonnet you should see fuel ****ing out the top of the filter!
tomcat59alan
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Correct Ant, I was taught to be methodical and more importantly open-minded
kapilamuni
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If he opened the fuel lines then bleeding is necessary. But that was not the reason to shut the engine. Bleeding is secondary issue which he has created
I have driven my car with a dead ITP for more than 3 months & it started on 5-6 cranks even when the fuel was very low. I have no idea what this 1/4 tank limit.
Even to bleed the system, OP will have to find the reason for sudden shut down. There are only two reasons for such an issue, one is the stop solenoid playing up.
provided other supplies like fuel, available. The other is Wammers specialty.
I have driven my car with a dead ITP for more than 3 months & it started on 5-6 cranks even when the fuel was very low. I have no idea what this 1/4 tank limit.
Even to bleed the system, OP will have to find the reason for sudden shut down. There are only two reasons for such an issue, one is the stop solenoid playing up.
provided other supplies like fuel, available. The other is Wammers specialty.
tomcat59alan
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How would you suggest finding out the reason the engine shut down without restoring the fuel system to the state it was in before the shut down ? I feel as if I've got on the same merry go round as last time. As we have had no feedback from the OP then whatever we say is hypothetical
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We are trying to find the reason for the shut down. I will repeat, NOT ALL diesel P38s will run with a duff lift pump. First thing he needs to do is feed pin 5 on relay 12 from positive battery to see if lift pump runs. When climbing a ladder you start at the bottom rung and not one half way up.
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He does not have any glow lamp with ignition. That is one of his problems. One step at a time.
tomcat59alan
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There are non so deaf as those that will not hear.
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There are non so deaf as those that will not hear.
A word in the shell like of the OP. When going to a garage to ask a question about your car, talk to and listen to one of the mechanics and not the petrol pump attendant.
P38_OTMS
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Wow thanks for all the advice. I have messaged brian and im going to work on the car today, will try bridging the lift pump and see what happens then report back.
Im well aware that i caused the need to rebleed the system. Rookie mistake perhaps. As i said before im a competant mechanic but i have zero experience with diesel engines.
Im well aware that i caused the need to rebleed the system. Rookie mistake perhaps. As i said before im a competant mechanic but i have zero experience with diesel engines.
P38_OTMS
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UPDATE: Lift pump bridged and appears to be opeational
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So that would suggest your lack of fuel to the filter, would be caused by your glow plug issue.....
As @wammers aludes to, depending on model year, the ITP will run with glows on etc......more investigation into why the glows are inop is needed.....others are more knowledgeable on route of investigation than I.
As @wammers aludes to, depending on model year, the ITP will run with glows on etc......more investigation into why the glows are inop is needed.....others are more knowledgeable on route of investigation than I.
P38_OTMS
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I think I may have found the cause of the issue... fuel is now getting through the filter so that’s fine. However I have absolutely zero power to the glow plugs, and what’s more no power across the fuse in the glow plug relay. This suggests to me that the glow plug relay may be the culprit... yes?
Further edit: found this thing wedged down the side of the battery and badly wired in. Is this the famous hot start kit?
Further edit: found this thing wedged down the side of the battery and badly wired in. Is this the famous hot start kit?
Last edited:
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yep.....
P38_OTMS
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Relay likely to be the culprit? That’s fine except still doesn’t explain why it stopped whist driving...
kieran kilmartin
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I think I may have found the cause of the issue... fuel is now getting through the filter so that’s fine. However I have absolutely zero power to the glow plugs, and what’s more no power across the fuse in the glow plug relay. This suggests to me that the glow plug relay may be the culprit... yes?
Further edit: found this thing wedged down the side of the battery and badly wired in. Is this the famous hot start kit?
kieran kilmartin
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yes thats the famous hot start fix, if its wired in badly it shouldnt stop your heater plugs working as you only cut the temperature wire to the ecu and join it to this unit which fools the ecu into thinking the engine is cold and it turns the heater plugs on and also the ecu tells the pump to give the car more fuel as well, check the connector to the crank sensor is still connected just below the starter motor just for good measure
P38_OTMS
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Just done that and it’s fine. By process of elimination I’m making some progress now:
I’ve refitted all the fuel lines, got my neighbour to crank it over and there is fuel moving through the clear pipe but nothing whatsoever getting to the number one injector.
Still no power to glow plugs or relay though. Just need to go get a test light and check the cut off solonoid.
I’m still not convinced there isn’t an Ecu sync issue somewhere though as the battery isn’t at full charge any more
