Removing starter motor on TD5 auto, replacing contacts, etc

Hi
Having done this just recently I am putting this up in case others have the same problems as I did and want to know the easiest way to solve them.
Reason for doing it? Irregular starting, turn key to final position, solenoid clicks but starter doesn't turn, until I tried it over and over again. Eventually the contacts would make the electrical connection and it would start.

So I ordered the contacts kit from Fourby and more on that later. I also watched their youtube, which was useful but missed some stuff out.
I will do this thread in individual posts as it will be a bit long and I will need to upload pics.

It's a common issue covered many time on here and other sites glad you actually sorted it rather than just swop out the starter

Step one, obviously, remove at least the negative connection to the battery. The connections are always prone to shorting through a spanner.
Step two, Remove the "nut from hell". Well named!
This is the top nut holding the starter to the torque converter housing. You may have expected me to have said "remove the electrical connections" but actually, no. For two reasons, one, you will be going in from the top, not the bottom so it is easier with the car still on the ground. Although if you are of average height like me you will need something to stand on. I use an old bottle crate. And two it actually keeps the wires from being loose and in the way.
Here is the tool kit you will need (courtesy of @jamesmartin, cheers mate) From the top




Telescopic magnet-on-a-stick. The magnet needs to be strong, my other one was too puny.
Breaker bar 1/2 inch, powerful torch, normal length, 3/8 inch drive 15mm socket, preferably six sided, and thin wall. extension then 1/2 to 3/8th converter, U/J then a whole load of extensions.
Ratchet and bar of some sort.
You may find you can do it all with 1/2 inch.
If you like, by all means jack the car up and put the offside up on an axlestand. (I did this), then you can have a look and a feel around the starter, trying to get a socket and extension on it. I tried to do this for a very long, frustrating time. Even when I managed to get one on, I could not get enough purchase on it to crack the nut. So I spent time on tinternet until I found the answer, well half of it, until JM told me the whole thing!
So, you use the torch by propping it into place up against the pipes leading to the FPR, rear of offside of engine. This will more or less illuminate the end of the stud and the nut. This will then help you to spray penetrating stuff over the end of the stud. Just!
You then manoeuvre the extensions etc though into the gap between the second and third inlet pipes on the manifold. Use the magnet through the first inlet manifold gap to pick up the socket and help place it on the nut.
Now use the bar to jam/hold in place the first extension/U/J. It's one with a lot of torque so you'll need a long breaker bar.
Once cracked, use the ratchet to wind it out, then wind it back in again! In fact you may find you need to do this twice. Don't tighten it back on now, the idea is to leave it possible to spin it off by hand.
Why do this? Because the socket will jam on the starter and prevent you from taking the nut off!

If you ain't got the Disco up in the air, now is the time. There is very little room under there and it is very frustrating not being able to put a hand through the wheel arch over the chassis.
The two other bolts, not nuts(!) are 13mm. The holes they screw into have open ends so it helps to be able to spray your favourite penetrating material into the open end of these.
While that is acting, take the lucar connector off and the nut holding the big red wire. screw the nut back onto the stud sso you don't lose it.
The 13mm headed bolts are not the easiest bolts to get undone, but they are reasonably obvious. I just used extensions to spanners and breaker bars to crack them. Winding them off takes for ever as there is so little room to swing your spanner/ratchet. I won't tell you too much about how to do this/exactly what tools to use, as I am not here to insult anyone's intelligence, but it anyone is bothered I'll explain if you ask.
Once the bolts are undone, note the position of the plate that holds the ATF pipe clamp, in relation to the boltheads and the starter. I didn't and ended up getting it wrong when putting it back and having to go back to the beginning. A real pain!
Once all the bolts are out and put somewhere safe, you will find you have to turn the starter all over the place to get it out, but it will come out, eventually. Try not to damage the drain tubes, you may well find them hanging by a thread anyway. But more on them later.

Right! Now for the easy bit! Stripping and replacing the contacts.
Up to you whether you clean the starter or not. Being electrical I like to do this, so I used white spirit and an old paintbrush, which was good enough.
Here is a pic showing you the two parts of the starter with the solenoid in the front, with the end plate and its three bolts on the top.You take the three bolts off to remove the plate and its gasket.

Once that is off you can then remove the sprung plunger and examine the underside of it. Also you'll be able to see the two copper contacts that the contact on the plunger bridges when the solenoid pulls it towards them.


Notice the wear/arcing on the bottom of the plunger contact.


and on the static contacts, particularly the left hand one, which has a big step it it. This would have forced the plunger contact to have to cant over to make a proper bridge and inevitably this would have led to a much smaller contact area.

Now you need to remove the static contacts which is easy enough as long as you keep everything in the correct order and ensure you do not lose anything you need to put back cos it isn't in the kit you bought!
For instance, I found the kit did not contain two O rings and one circular gasket. And the nuts were the wrong size. The thread size was correct but the dimension i.e. the bit you put the spanner on, was not right. Also they were too thick. so I had to mix and match to get it as original. Below is the right hand, easier one.


You will note the new stuff on the top and the old on the bottom. I kept the old nut and oval washer.
When reassembling, just ensure all parts are reassembled in the correct order and the right way round. I make sure I have done this by always putting each item down the same way up on my board, I have also photographed every single item as I took it off but there is not much point in putting this up here.
Also ensure the right angled contact plate rests properly flat on the inside of the base of the space inside the solenoid.

The left hand contact is a little bit trickier. And there was only some of the parts new in the kit so be delicate with the gasket and O ring if your kit is like mine!
In particular the black plasticky fixing with the little spigot on it. This holds the circular gasket.

When it comes to assembling this contact you will note that the bolt has a splined part just inside of the square head. In the vid Fourby suggest assembling loosely the whole shebang then, in the solenoid winding the nut on to pull the contact plate onto the splines. But I didn't fancy putting anything plastic or nylon under any strain so I made up what you see below.

The big nut is the 15mm nut that holds the starter on! Very useful as a spacer! So I used this to wind the splines into the contact plate.
When fitting the assembly, two things. One, ensure the contact plate sits flat on the bottom. Two, if you have difficulty keeping the O ring and the circular gasket in the nylon/plastic black fitting, turn the whole starter over to the left so that gravity keeps it all in place until you tighten it up loosely. Then tighten it all down.

Testing.
This is quite easy. The pics probably tell it all.
Here are the connections to the meter.


Meter set to ohms and the plunger depressed to make contact across all three contacts.


1.8 ohms may not look that good but here is the image of the two clips connected.


Take the 1.6 from the 1.8 and we have a resistance of .2 ohms, which is nothing!

Edit. since I posted this thread some have said they did all this then replaced the starter and it still wouldn't work.
So I suggest that instead of what I did, or in addition to it, people simply test their starter off the car by making appropriate connection from a battery. I would advise putting the starter in a vice to stop it flying around the workshop! Or securing it in some other way.
Best of luck!

Drainage tubes.


As you can see these looked pretty sorry for themselves.
In the end I removed them, buttered them with some "Sticks-like-sh!t" and left them to dry. I then fitted them back, there is a kind of nylon clip which holds the base onto the starter. It isn't very satisfactory and the clip on one didn't seem to go back on very well, but it is holding to gether at the moment.
Refitting the starter is, as usual, the reverse of removal.
The trickiest part is getting the top nut threaded onto the stud. Finger tips of both hands were necessary and it fell off once before I managed it. Then by using exactly the same tools as used to remove it I was able to tighten it up. But I had to remove the socket, rotate it and then put it back on three times to make sure I wasn't straining the U/J.
If there is a loose contact between the Lucar connector and the tag, then give it a gentle squeeze with a pair of pliers.

I do hope this has been of use to someone!

biketeacherdave said:

It's a common issue covered many time on here and other sites glad you actually sorted it rather than just swop out the starter

Click to expand...

Funnily enough I thought that too, but did not manage to find the actual nitty gritty of how to get the top nut off. Or not stuff that worked. Luckily JM took pity on me and told me EXACTLY how to do it.

On a manual the top nut is easy enough from the bottom. You just need the right length extension. The distance between the tip of the socket and the back of the extension driver needs to be between 19 and 20 cm.

brianconwy said:

On a manual the top nut is easy enough from the bottom. You just need the right length extension. The distance between the tip of the socket and the back of the extension driver needs to be between 19 and 20 cm.

Click to expand...

This may well be true, all I know is that
a/ this may not work on an automatic
b/ the only other person who mentioned this on his post mentioned having to grind part of his extension down to make it fit.

As I said in the thread, I tried for ages with all my 3/8 th and 1/2 " drive sockets, extensions, u/js and a variety of breaker bars. And I have quite a wide range. Admittedly I have not lashed out the £100 odd necessary for a professional tray of extensions.
However your post contains useful information and I am happy cos it would be easier than faffing around the way I had to, to a certain extent, not knowing this. But I expect I would still have had to go out and find another extension, or modify one of mine by grinding and or cutting and welding.

JM told me a way that works. I tried it with my existing kit. It worked. So if a person does not have the right extension then JM's method works with ordinary home mechanics kit. It doesn't take long and it is more comfortable to do. No getting carp in your eyes as you fiddle around doing it by touch!
Cheers!

When the nut first slackens and when replacing nut, I find it easier to reach by lying with my head to the front of the car and turning away from the starter so that I can reach behind with my right hand. Probably because I don't have long arms.

brianconwy said:

View attachment 201699 View attachment 201700
When the nut first slackens and when replacing nut, I find it easier to reach by lying with my head to the front of the car and turning away from the starter so that I can reach behind with my right hand. Probably because I don't have long arms.

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Brian this is fascinating! I could never have taken a photo of the top nut as my manifold etc, etc was in the way.
The extension that you have used, and thanks a million for the excellent photos by the way, seems to be about 68mm.
I also didn't have one the length you have. I tried combinations of short, long, U/Js etc but they either led to the breaker or ratchet fouling on the starter or on the chassis or some other bit under the car. Also the thing was done up bastud tight, I broke a 3/8ths U/J trying to undo it with a long breaker bar. So getting a long one on, even with a 68mm extension would have been difficult.
Always nice to have an alternative and thanks for going to the trouble of taking the pics!

I had the cylinder head off at the time so I thought it would be a good time to take the photo.

Stanleysteamer said:

This may well be true, all I know is that
a/ this may not work on an automatic
b/ the only other person who mentioned this on his post mentioned having to grind part of his extension down to make it fit.

As I said in the thread, I tried for ages with all my 3/8 th and 1/2 " drive sockets, extensions, u/js and a variety of breaker bars. And I have quite a wide range. Admittedly I have not lashed out the £100 odd necessary for a professional tray of extensions.
However your post contains useful information and I am happy cos it would be easier than faffing around the way I had to, to a certain extent, not knowing this. But I expect I would still have had to go out and find another extension, or modify one of mine by grinding and or cutting and welding.

JM told me a way that works. I tried it with my existing kit. It worked. So if a person does not have the right extension then JM's method works with ordinary home mechanics kit. It doesn't take long and it is more comfortable to do. No getting carp in your eyes as you fiddle around doing it by touch!
Cheers!

Click to expand...

Great write up.
Just wanted to stress the point of getting the two contacts square so the plunger meets them full face.
As you tighten up the nuts the little buggers like to twist.

raywin said:

Great write up.
Just wanted to stress the point of getting the two contacts square so the plunger meets them full face.
As you tighten up the nuts the little buggers like to twist.

Click to expand...

Precisely! Glad you liked it!

brianconwy said:

I had the cylinder head off at the time so I thought it would be a good time to take the photo.

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Aaaah! that explains it! Thanks anyway.
Have a horrible feeling my head will need to come off in the not too distant future. Maybe someone will do a thread on that with all the little wrinkles! I would probably have to do it on my own, yet it is said this is impossible.

Stanleysteamer said:

Aaaah! that explains it! Thanks anyway.
Have a horrible feeling my head will need to come off in the not too distant future. Maybe someone will do a thread on that with all the little wrinkles! I would probably have to do it on my own, yet it is said this is impossible.

Click to expand...

I am living proof that it's not impossible.
Took my engine out last year (single handed) and did a rebuild, there's a thread on here.
For the head I would recommend just work slowly and carefully, loosen the head bolts in order, and tighten them in order, buy a good quality torx socket I used bacho, you need a good breaker bar, they are very tight.
I used the engine crane to lift the head, but I found I could lift it onto the bench by hand. Take some time and lap the valves in, but be very careful re assembling cam followers and cam shaft, it sits up at one end and the followers will jump out, tighten very slowly and evenly when re assembling.
Buy GOOD QUALITY head bolts, I bought German ones from LR direct ( second time) get a good elring head gasket.
Good luck

Maybe something in here that might helphttps://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/at-last-the-big-td5-job.349420/