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Rear, seats anyone know what's the legislation?

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by raywin, Jun 6, 2017.

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  1. Retrospaceman

    Retrospaceman Active Member

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    Kids need to be 12 years old to be able to sit in a side seat. this is due to the child seat legislation.
    I have a 110 hard top and 4 kids. I couldn't afford the Exmoor trim fold up seats, and the cheaper ones which bolt the belts to the floor are not suitable for child booster seats.
    So I've got four transit mini bus seats which all have three point safety belts included, 3 are rear facing (as permitted under the child seating legislation) lined up along the bulkhead and one is front facing need the rear door. This gives the kiddies enough space for now, but its too cramped in there for adults to use comfortably.
    Having the seats rear facing also means that their is still space if carrying a load in the back.

    At the end of the day you as the driver need to be comfortable with how your passengers are seated. Adults can make there own choice and take their own risk, but kids have defined rules.
     
  2. raywin

    raywin Well-Known Member

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  3. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    But lets add a little rational and common sense here....

    How many of those 10,000 are in side facing seats in a Defender? I suspect very few.

    If you are pottering about locally very occasionally, the actual risk is very very low. Even more so if you are mostly at low speed.
     
  4. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe this is the case.
     
  5. raywin

    raywin Well-Known Member

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    Quite honestly to me that says the majority of the 10,000 and in much safer circumstances than a sideways seat in a defender, just want to get any edge available, kids are pretty precious.
     
  6. Colthebrummie

    Colthebrummie Well-Known Member

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    10,000 sounds a lot but there are literally millions of the little devils, you wouldn't miss a few.

    Col
     
  7. neilly

    neilly Well-Known Member

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    actually it is:

    Children must normally use a child car seat until they’re 12 years old or 135 centimetres tall, whichever comes first.

    https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/using-a-child-car-seat-or-booster-seat
    https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-can-travel-without-a-car-seat
    • not fit a child car seat in side-facing seats
    Unless you like to gamble , I suppose.

    A child aged 3 or older can travel in a back seat without a child car seat and without a seat belt if the vehicle doesn’t have one.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  8. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    I spoke to VOSA, who contacted the DfT on this question. I have a reply from them:


    Essentially this means, if a child is over 3 years old, then they can travel in side facing seats WITHOUT seat belts, but cannot travel in ones with a seat belt.
     
  9. neilly

    neilly Well-Known Member

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    See my edit which is from the next page of the link , I put there.

    I still think that is a gamble I would not want to take with a child.

    Cheers
     
  10. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Yes, kids are so precious, it's a ****ing miracle any have survived for the past 200,000 years!!! :rolleyes:

    It's about risk management. Tootling along at 30mph on fairly quiet roads is hugely unlikely to result in a 70mph roll over is it? If that is your intended use, then the risk is far lower than driving like a maniac on busy dual carriageway roads in rush hour, all year round for 1000's of miles.

    Add a little more levity, do you really think sitting in the back of a Defender is truly any more dangerous than riding a push bike or walking down the pavement? Will you prevent your kids from doing those things too? :)
     
  11. blue beasty

    blue beasty Leaks an prone to bits dropping off Global Moderator

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    If it's ok with you I'll copy that post and put it in the Defender and Series Tech archives.
     
  12. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    That is your choice, but I, like I suspect many on here, grew up with Land Rover's in the family and riding in the back of one is just a normal occurrence. Yes you have to be sensible, but unless you have a history of having lots of major road accidents, then the real risks are mathematically very low.

    However the fact remains, it is legal to carry a child of 3 years+ in the back of a Land Rover with side facing seats and no seatbelts.


    On a similar note......

    Don't many buses still have no seatbelts and side facing as well as forward and rear facing seats. I don't recall children being banned from traveling on a bus. And let's not even mention things like trains or the London Underground!
     
  13. NorfolkBird

    NorfolkBird Well-Known Member

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    I had Exmoor Trim fold -up, forward facing seats fitted in the back of my panel back 90 for my kids who are under 12 but only need booster seats. I spent a lot of time reaserching the legislation at the time - it was vague and confusing. These fitted the bill. I would say my insurers at the time refused to insure me tho after they were fitted as it was classed as a mod - I think I've mentioned this before on here - so it's a good idea to check with yr insurers too.
    Regarding safety in general - talk to anyone who works for the emergency services and they will say don't ever even take your child out for a minute in a side facing seat or without the proper booster/carry seat. It only takes a second for some daft f****er to drive into you which happened to me when one of my lads was in the front passenger seat.
     
  14. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    I have no objections. Thanks :)
     
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  15. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    It's not that I don't agree with your sentiments, nor that I'm uncaring. But exactly how many times a year do you (or the average person), manage to roll your vehicle on the public highway?

    Yes, it only takes a second for something bad to happen....

    [​IMG]

    So I guess walking to the shops will be out of the question too?

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. NorfolkBird

    NorfolkBird Well-Known Member

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    It dunt hv to roll to cause life-changing injuries.
     
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  17. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Indeed no. Which is why I said it's about risk management, the type of driving, the distance, the types of road and the duration.

    Just as another FYI....

    This stat must have taken side facing seats into account, as at the time, that was pretty much the only seating option.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So statistically speaking, it would seem they are quite safe.
     
  18. NorfolkBird

    NorfolkBird Well-Known Member

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    Statistically risk maybe low, but why take the risk when you don't have to?
     
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  19. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Because everything is a risk, going in any car, walking down the street. Trying to polarise it and turn it into black and white of what is or isn't safe is just foolish and a way of deluding yourself to risk. Making you think you are more safe than you really are and being fearful of things which are probably no more risky.
     
  20. raywin

    raywin Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what this is all about but looked at simply life is full of risks, things I did when i was a kid make me cringe now, how many miles did I ride when cycle helmets were unheard of but now I know two people who have suffered serious head injury on bicycles.
    Seems logical to me, given the option to reduce risk or increase risk wont take me long to decide.
     
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