Really confused - R380 gearbox issues on Discovery 2

A bit of a wild card - but it might be worth checking the depth of the spigot bush orifice? If they are all as hard to extract as mine was, it is just possible that in the fight to extract the old one a piece of crap might be trapped behind the new bush. I know it is highly unlikely, but if the end of the first motion shaft can't go all the way home it would explain why the input bearing would fail.

Sounds like the GB is the issues here? Who from? Ashcrofts are the go to so if not them who? In any event Have you spoken to dave at ashcrofts, explain history he will steer you right

What oil is used it the box & has the transfer box/train been checked. Is there any crank walk.

sierrafery said:

My statement was about fitting a solid flywheel instead of the DMF as i did, without any other enhancements, those vibrations and jerks i experienced would have killed the gearbox at a time IMO, or maybe not but it was a huge disconfort... the jerks were especially when the clutch was released on low gear changes(from 1 to 2, 2 to 3 or vice-versa) and not at low rpms... which now seems normal to me knowing that the DMF is supposed to "deaden" that torsional stress. Each to his own but i'd never fit a solid flywheel again no matter what.

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Cant say I agree with that either. I blew two DMFs on my 110 then had a balanced SMF from lof fitted. 35k miles at 530nm of torque, driven daily and off road. Gearbox showed zero signs of failure. With absolutely zero change in drivability.

Also got one in my D2 12k miles so far.

Mates got the same in his 110, 28k miles. Mates 90 20k miles and finally a mates D2 (now sold) on 45k miles.

Issue sits with the old unbalanced DMFs not the ones from LOF.

Have you checked the clutch is fully and properly bled? Got an AP clutch slave?

I found on my D2 because theres no adjustment on the pedal a bad slave cylinder can cause really poor gear selection.

As i said my statement was about a solid flywhell not some LOF setup with enhanced clutch which might compensate for the torsional stress...i just shared my own experience cos there were no other issues on mine as once a DMF was refitted everything went back to normal... my D2 has steel bumpers and winch + the boot is full of tools and stuff so much heavyer than a standard D2 maybe that was the root of my bad experience. I'm glad that it works for you and others as long as it's not a cognitive dissonnance like the impressions that there's no difference in ride between a D2 with ACE or/and SLS removed and one with those systems on and working (sorry, i couldn't help myself )

Fuy agree there, cant stand it when I see people taking ACE off its fantastic.

I agree the old SMFs from britpart etc where terrible and caused the issues you stated but Luke from LOF spent a lot of time and money pretty much remanufacturing SMFs to avoid these issues.

I cant run DMFs due to the torque output of my Td5s, they just explode.

The one I have fitted is made by Rakeway, the plate is AP, and the cover is Helix, so all quality clobber. I don't notice any judder on gear changes.

Anyhow, I hope the OP gets this sorted as it sounds like a bit of a mare.

Sorry, been trying to get the combine going between storms and the Discovery is sitting sadly in my yard having just towed it back from the garage with gearbox etc in the boot.
Thanks for all the interesting ideas above - very much appreciated. As far as I know nothing's been done to the clutch slave cylinder but gear selection is OK when the gearbox is working. Could a clutch cylinder wreck an input bearing?
A bloke I've known for years said check the dowels are still in place between bellhousing and engine. Yep. Also checked for remains of earlier spigot bush whilst I was down there. None seen.
The transfer box changes from high to low quite easily, other than that I haven't been near it. Would a transfer box, on the back of the main gearbox, wreck the input bearing at the front?
Oil in the R380 was that MTF94 stuff, the rebuilder recommended it but then suggested I try ATF as an alternative - not sure where he was going with that one...
I measured everything I could on the bellhousing with steel straight edge on a flat steel plate. I can't really convince myself there's much wrong with it.
Maybe I'm going round in circles, maybe it's just a crap gearbox rebuild, but the reputation of the rebuilder is 100% and this cursed vehicle had already destroyed 2 boxes in 140,000 miles before I used them (knowing father in law, the second one was probably OEM Land Rover!)
By "crank walk" above - is that the same as endfloat? Endfloat is less than 2mm...
Cheers all

It sounds to me as if the input shaft of the gearbox is being pushed back into the gearbox slightly when you bolt it up Assuming that the castings are true, there are only three things that could do that. 1. The crank sits too far back. 2. The input shaft isn't seating correctly in the spigot bush. 3. The centre plate is not seating on the input shaft correctly. Sorry for asking, but is it possible that the centre plate is wrong or possibly going in the wrong way round?
I've used Difflock Evo 1 for years in firstly my 300tdI and now my td5 and have found it brilliant. I find it hugely helps to reduce the 2nd gear snatch when changing up. Not much improvement when you first switch, but after a few thousand miles there seems to be a real improvement. The extended service interval helps to mitigate some of the extra cost.

Tim C said:

It sounds to me as if the input shaft of the gearbox is being pushed back into the gearbox slightly when you bolt it up Assuming that the castings are true, there are only three things that could do that. 1. The crank sits too far back. 2. The input shaft isn't seating correctly in the spigot bush. 3. The centre plate is not seating on the input shaft correctly. Sorry for asking, but is it possible that the centre plate is wrong or possibly going in the wrong way round?
I've used Difflock Evo 1 for years in firstly my 300tdI and now my td5 and have found it brilliant. I find it hugely helps to reduce the 2nd gear snatch when changing up. Not much improvement when you first switch, but after a few thousand miles there seems to be a real improvement. The extended service interval helps to mitigate some of the extra cost.

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not sure if you can manage to fit driven plate wrong way round, BUT if its possible that would be a cause!
my money is on dodgy spigot if all else is in order. maybe ovoid crank end....aka eggy crank

Thanks for the latest suggestions. I think I need to turn my attention to the spigot bush as it's pretty unlikely the local garage put the clutch plate in the wrong way round... They are extremely good, know their stuff inside out and the bloke who did mine suggested the clutch kit and is a Discovery enthusiast. I did half-jokingly suggest it to them and they looked quite insulted! I've got the flywheel and clutch components sitting in the boot, they look like they just came out of the box.
Would an eggy crank be noticeable or would I need to measure with calipers?
When I'm not thinking about Discovery gearboxes I'm trying to run the farm I rent. Currently coaxing an elderly combine through the crops and dodging the showers so haven't got on with this gearbox problem for a day or two. I'd better send the box back to the rebuilder, though he's not keen on standing by his guarantee as he swears blind it's not the box... and this Discovery does have a history of eating gearbox input shafts, to be fair to him!
Thanks all, your help is greatly appreciated...

Another thought - end float seems to be about all that is left. It might be worth dropping the sump and looking for any swarfe. I have never stripped a TD5, but Rave shows that the thrust washers are fitted on the third main bearing. It should be possible to drop the bottom shell and look at the bottom half of the thrust washer without disturbing the crank.

Cirl Bunting said:

Thanks for the latest suggestions. I think I need to turn my attention to the spigot bush as it's pretty unlikely the local garage put the clutch plate in the wrong way round... They are extremely good, know their stuff inside out and the bloke who did mine suggested the clutch kit and is a Discovery enthusiast. I did half-jokingly suggest it to them and they looked quite insulted! I've got the flywheel and clutch components sitting in the boot, they look like they just came out of the box.
Would an eggy crank be noticeable or would I need to measure with calipers?
When I'm not thinking about Discovery gearboxes I'm trying to run the farm I rent. Currently coaxing an elderly combine through the crops and dodging the showers so haven't got on with this gearbox problem for a day or two. I'd better send the box back to the rebuilder, though he's not keen on standing by his guarantee as he swears blind it's not the box... and this Discovery does have a history of eating gearbox input shafts, to be fair to him!
Thanks all, your help is greatly appreciated...

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When bronze bush is fitted it would be noticable showing gaps each side, the bronze bush must be fitted correctly if it protrudes even a few mm it will cause problems as suggested. Depends how they removed it there is a special tool or some people use bread or grease to force it out, its such a tight fit if any grease still remains it can push the bush back out or stop it from seating correctly.

KISSMYAURA said:

When bronze bush is fitted it would be noticable showing gaps each side, the bronze bush must be fitted correctly if it protrudes even a few mm it will cause problems as suggested. Depends how they removed it there is a special tool or some people use bread or grease to force it out, its such a tight fit if any grease still remains it can push the bush back out or stop it from seating correctly.

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It has to be said if your garage are such experts why cant they diagnose the problem? Just saying!!

Hello all, just thought I'd post a follow up, nothing worse than people joining a forum, asking for help and never letting you know what happened. The gearbox rebuilders said they'd never seen one so destroyed , not even after racing. All I did was 1000 miles of normal motoring on roads. They've supplied me with another, and also gave me a bellhousing foc just in case it's that... So far I've done 100 miles on the latest gearbox, seems a bit smoother than the others (touch wood).