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"ROBIN DUMPLETON" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It almost sounds as if the petrol is not running at all.
I am pretty sure it is, i started it on petrol, and it ran for maybe 5
or 6 seconds, did this maybe 5 times, removed the fuel pump relay
under the seat and the engine refused to start , replaced the relay,
and the engine fired again for a few seconds.
> Firstly is your RR fitted with "Injection Emulators" These are two (normally
> on a V8) black boxes with wires going to each of the injectors. If it is a
> conversion done within the last three years or so the cables terminate in
> plugs, remove the plugs from the injectors and replace with the original
> plugs.
The installation looks quite old, i doubt it was fitted within the
last 3 years.
>The Fuse should be removed from the gas system or the two wires to
> the solenoid valve and cut off valve on the vapouriser, thats the big
> aluminium lump and the brass solenoid. If you have no plugs on the injectors
> then it is a little more difficult, either the emulators are soldered into
> the individual injector lines or the injector earth has been cut at the ECU
> and a relay put in the line.
The injectors appear to have original plugs connecting them, i will
double check tomorrow.
> Having removed the injection emulators and the fuse (will be on a red wire
> coming off the ignition circuit, usually positive on the coil and leading
> through the bulkhead to the gas switch) or removed the blue wires from the
> two valves, you have effectively removed the gas from the system.
>If the
> vehicle still does not start well, check the relay contacts on the two
> relays under the airfilter, they are bolted to the airfilter support.
I'm going to do this, the engine actually starts very well, almost
immediatley on petrol, the damn thing just wont run for more than a
few seconds. If i leave it ticking over the engine speed gradually
decreases until the engine cuts, when warm this takes maybe 5 to 10
seconds. If i try to rev the engine it splutters and dies.
>Still
> a problem? Go to the distributor and change the amplifier module. This is
> the little white block on the side of the distributor. Don't go near a RR
> dealer for this part as they charge an arm and a leg. It is the same module
> as fitted to an austin metro and is 50p from the scrappie.
Ok, ill get one, and replace it.
> If you don't have emulators come back and we'll go further, but relaying out
> the injector earth can sometimes cause all sorts of problems on this model.
Ill have a close look, and take some more photos of the engine bay,
maybe someone will spot some relay or something that isnt factory
standard.
> Also, considering earths, check the earth point is OK on the engine to
> gearbox, you have to reach right over the engine and grovel around until you
> find it. Sorry can't go further at the moment.
Cant go further?, youve all been an enourmous help so far, i am very
very grateful (sill dont run long on petrol tho
).
>Except to say does the fuel
> pump run when you're cranking.
Think so, do you have a better way of checking than i did ?.
>
> Robin
I think so
>
> "Mjolinor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "RR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > > In http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1877.JPG.jpg you can see a solenoid
> > > > attached to the vaporiser (tucked under the vapour pipe). This has to
> > > > open for the engine to be able to run on LPG, so if you pull off one
> > > > of the wires that activate it, you will soon see if it starting on
> > > > petrol.
> > > OK, i will have a look at this.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not familiar with your make of vaporiser, but it seems to be
> > > > mounted rotated through 90 degrees. All the ones I've seen have the
> > > > solenoid at the top, and the copper pipe from the tank coming into the
> > > > side. This may not affect its operation, but draining the sludge out
> > > > of it (should it ever accumulate any - mine never has) may not be
> > > > possible because the drain plug won't be at the bottom.
> > > >
> > >
> > > OK, ill see if there is one anywhere.
> > >
> > > > > There is a yellow light that i think
> > > > >signifies running on petrol, if this stays lit, the engine cuts /
> > > > >dies, if this light goes off, the engine starts.
> > > >
> > > > And runs OK? If it runs OK on LPG, but not petrol, this implies that
> > > > it is a petrol system problem, which may simply be gummed up
> > > > injectors/carbs.
> > >
> > > Yes, it runs fine on LPG once it appears to switch over to it, seems
> > > underpowered on LPG but i expected that.
> > >
> > > Other people have suggested looking at some relays etc, which i am
> > > going to do tomorrow.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > When on Petrol only
> > > > >setting, the engine does similar, but wont run more than a few
> > > > >seconds, wont rev, just dies. I could make small video of the
> problem
> > > > >if needed.
>
> > > > >> I have adjusted the changeover revs on my controller to zero, which
> > > > >> effectively makes the switch a simple choice between petrol or LPG.
> > > > >
> > > > >Any idea how i could do this with this unit ?.
> > > >
> > > > Not specifically, but on mine there was a little trimming pot.
> > > > accessible through a hole in the back of the unit. What does the
> > > > control on the side of your unit do, visible in
> > > > http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1874.JPG ?
> > >
> > > I dont know, if it rotates i will change it's position slightly,
> > > (clockwise i suppose), to see if it has any effect.
> > >
> > > Ill try and explain better how the engine starts; If i try to start
> > > on petrol alone, (rocker switch to the right, just red light lit) the
> > > engine catches, revs go up to 1,000 with no misfiring, runs for maybe
> > > 4 or 5 seconds, then simply dies, you would just think the engne had
> > > started with almost no fuel.
> > >
> > > The same applies on gas, and if you try to rev the engine, it
> > > splutters and dies, unless you manage to get the engine to reach 2500
> > > revs, where you can hear a click, a yellow light on the control unit
> > > goes out, and the engine revs freely after this. When doing this you
> > > cannot have the engine running and rev it to 2,500 , but if you crank
> > > it on the starter, and keep some throttle on, then it may catch and
> > > switch onto gas.
> > >
> > > There seems to be a knack to this, which i havent mastered yet, and it
> > > is very difficult to start from cold, but when hot is much easier.
> > >
> > > If you would like a video placing on a web page of the starting
> > > problem, ill be only too happy to do this.
> >
> >
> > Is the petrol very old. It may just be that it hasn't been used on petrol
> > for an age. Take it to the top of a long hill, switch it to petrol and see
> > if you can get it to run on petrol. If the injectors are blocked and the
> > petrol is old then a bit of perseverence may get it working again. It
> seems
> > to me that you need to sort the petrol side before you start tweaking the
> > gas system.
> >
> >
> It almost sounds as if the petrol is not running at all.
I am pretty sure it is, i started it on petrol, and it ran for maybe 5
or 6 seconds, did this maybe 5 times, removed the fuel pump relay
under the seat and the engine refused to start , replaced the relay,
and the engine fired again for a few seconds.
> Firstly is your RR fitted with "Injection Emulators" These are two (normally
> on a V8) black boxes with wires going to each of the injectors. If it is a
> conversion done within the last three years or so the cables terminate in
> plugs, remove the plugs from the injectors and replace with the original
> plugs.
The installation looks quite old, i doubt it was fitted within the
last 3 years.
>The Fuse should be removed from the gas system or the two wires to
> the solenoid valve and cut off valve on the vapouriser, thats the big
> aluminium lump and the brass solenoid. If you have no plugs on the injectors
> then it is a little more difficult, either the emulators are soldered into
> the individual injector lines or the injector earth has been cut at the ECU
> and a relay put in the line.
The injectors appear to have original plugs connecting them, i will
double check tomorrow.
> Having removed the injection emulators and the fuse (will be on a red wire
> coming off the ignition circuit, usually positive on the coil and leading
> through the bulkhead to the gas switch) or removed the blue wires from the
> two valves, you have effectively removed the gas from the system.
>If the
> vehicle still does not start well, check the relay contacts on the two
> relays under the airfilter, they are bolted to the airfilter support.
I'm going to do this, the engine actually starts very well, almost
immediatley on petrol, the damn thing just wont run for more than a
few seconds. If i leave it ticking over the engine speed gradually
decreases until the engine cuts, when warm this takes maybe 5 to 10
seconds. If i try to rev the engine it splutters and dies.
>Still
> a problem? Go to the distributor and change the amplifier module. This is
> the little white block on the side of the distributor. Don't go near a RR
> dealer for this part as they charge an arm and a leg. It is the same module
> as fitted to an austin metro and is 50p from the scrappie.
Ok, ill get one, and replace it.
> If you don't have emulators come back and we'll go further, but relaying out
> the injector earth can sometimes cause all sorts of problems on this model.
Ill have a close look, and take some more photos of the engine bay,
maybe someone will spot some relay or something that isnt factory
standard.
> Also, considering earths, check the earth point is OK on the engine to
> gearbox, you have to reach right over the engine and grovel around until you
> find it. Sorry can't go further at the moment.
Cant go further?, youve all been an enourmous help so far, i am very
very grateful (sill dont run long on petrol tho
).>Except to say does the fuel
> pump run when you're cranking.
Think so, do you have a better way of checking than i did ?.
>
> Robin
I think so
>
> "Mjolinor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "RR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > > In http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1877.JPG.jpg you can see a solenoid
> > > > attached to the vaporiser (tucked under the vapour pipe). This has to
> > > > open for the engine to be able to run on LPG, so if you pull off one
> > > > of the wires that activate it, you will soon see if it starting on
> > > > petrol.
> > > OK, i will have a look at this.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not familiar with your make of vaporiser, but it seems to be
> > > > mounted rotated through 90 degrees. All the ones I've seen have the
> > > > solenoid at the top, and the copper pipe from the tank coming into the
> > > > side. This may not affect its operation, but draining the sludge out
> > > > of it (should it ever accumulate any - mine never has) may not be
> > > > possible because the drain plug won't be at the bottom.
> > > >
> > >
> > > OK, ill see if there is one anywhere.
> > >
> > > > > There is a yellow light that i think
> > > > >signifies running on petrol, if this stays lit, the engine cuts /
> > > > >dies, if this light goes off, the engine starts.
> > > >
> > > > And runs OK? If it runs OK on LPG, but not petrol, this implies that
> > > > it is a petrol system problem, which may simply be gummed up
> > > > injectors/carbs.
> > >
> > > Yes, it runs fine on LPG once it appears to switch over to it, seems
> > > underpowered on LPG but i expected that.
> > >
> > > Other people have suggested looking at some relays etc, which i am
> > > going to do tomorrow.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > When on Petrol only
> > > > >setting, the engine does similar, but wont run more than a few
> > > > >seconds, wont rev, just dies. I could make small video of the
> problem
> > > > >if needed.
>
> > > > >> I have adjusted the changeover revs on my controller to zero, which
> > > > >> effectively makes the switch a simple choice between petrol or LPG.
> > > > >
> > > > >Any idea how i could do this with this unit ?.
> > > >
> > > > Not specifically, but on mine there was a little trimming pot.
> > > > accessible through a hole in the back of the unit. What does the
> > > > control on the side of your unit do, visible in
> > > > http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1874.JPG ?
> > >
> > > I dont know, if it rotates i will change it's position slightly,
> > > (clockwise i suppose), to see if it has any effect.
> > >
> > > Ill try and explain better how the engine starts; If i try to start
> > > on petrol alone, (rocker switch to the right, just red light lit) the
> > > engine catches, revs go up to 1,000 with no misfiring, runs for maybe
> > > 4 or 5 seconds, then simply dies, you would just think the engne had
> > > started with almost no fuel.
> > >
> > > The same applies on gas, and if you try to rev the engine, it
> > > splutters and dies, unless you manage to get the engine to reach 2500
> > > revs, where you can hear a click, a yellow light on the control unit
> > > goes out, and the engine revs freely after this. When doing this you
> > > cannot have the engine running and rev it to 2,500 , but if you crank
> > > it on the starter, and keep some throttle on, then it may catch and
> > > switch onto gas.
> > >
> > > There seems to be a knack to this, which i havent mastered yet, and it
> > > is very difficult to start from cold, but when hot is much easier.
> > >
> > > If you would like a video placing on a web page of the starting
> > > problem, ill be only too happy to do this.
> >
> >
> > Is the petrol very old. It may just be that it hasn't been used on petrol
> > for an age. Take it to the top of a long hill, switch it to petrol and see
> > if you can get it to run on petrol. If the injectors are blocked and the
> > petrol is old then a bit of perseverence may get it working again. It
> seems
> > to me that you need to sort the petrol side before you start tweaking the
> > gas system.
> >
> >
