Re: Petrol?

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #21

On or around Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:05:17 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>OK - so lets have some details. How? And just saying "increase
>efficiency", "reduce headcount" is cheating - its got to be
>x thousand from here, their work to be done instead by ...,
>that sort of thing.

reduce workload in the DVLA by stopping the silliness of having to declare
every year that a vehicle is still not on the road...

<dismounts from soapbox>
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #22

On or around Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:53:37 +0100, "Nigel Hewitt"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Isn't this the philosophy of not taxing what you put into the
>economy (your labour) but only taxing what you take out (your
>purchases).
>
>Admittedly it would deserve a tax regime that zero rated essentials
>and progressively taxed more luxury goods.

indeed. unlike the present one which taxes all manner of stuff. then you
get to the tricky questions... is television essential? radio? books?
newspapers? beer? fags?


and yes, I know the last 2 are already heavily taxed.

petrol and diesel, mind, are not only taxed, but so is the duty on 'em,
which is a flippin' obvious con which *I* would never get away with, I'm
bloody sure.

is petrol an essential?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

 

G

GbH

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #23

In news:[email protected],
Paul S. Brown <[email protected]> blithered:
> beamendsltd wrote:
>
>> No - oil costs x per barrel. Other countries applys n tax to the
>> price of finished product. We apply 3x that amount of tax - the oil
>> still cost the same - no one is being lied to.
>>
>
> Actually - on that one we have been lied to directly.
>
> At the time of the last fuel crisis Gordon Brown was on TV stating
> that "There is no mulitplier on fuel taxation"
>
> Now, there's no multiplier on Fuel Excise Duty certainly, however
> there's VAT on top of that - and VAT is a multiplier tax.
>
> Outright lie.
>
> And I'm ****ed at having to pay the commodity price, plus a fixed
> excise levy and then pay a multiplier tax so I'm paying VAT on
> another tax.
>
> P.

But VAT is a tax on spending, not on fuel per se.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #24

In message <[email protected]>
"Gail" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > I think you'll find the UK direct tax burden is one of the lowest in
> > Europe, and indeed the "developed world".
>
> Well that is blatant rubbish.
> I'd really like to know where you get this nonsence from.
> I get mine from the residents of the respective countries.

There's monthly cost-of-living comparisons from all sort of sources.

>
> > No - oil costs x per barrel. Other countries applys n tax to the price of
> > finished product. We apply 3x that amount of tax - the oil still cost
> > the same - no one is being lied to.
>
> Yes I understand that, but the question is why are these punitive measures
> applied to us?

Because we choose a mix of indirect and direct taxation- we all very
happy to get Maggies direct tax cuts, but not quick witted enough to
realise that the diffence will be made up elsewhere.

>
> On the BBC morning news recently, it was announced that the increasing
> prices of petrol on the forcourts of the UK was as a direct result of rising
> barrel prices. Well I was in France of May of this year and fuel prices were
> the same then as now. If the barrel prices have increased and based on your
> logic, it would naturally follow that the the prices in mainland Europe
> would have increase too. They have not!
>
> explain that!?

I'll bet prices have risen. Have a look at

http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm

and have a few myths dispelled.

>
>
> > > I reitterate..
>
> >>....We really are being shafted - big time!!!
>

By our own greed - we want low taxes, but good public services. The
Government has no money of it's own, so one way or another we pay
for everything. So, if you like, we shaft ourselves!

> Gail
>
>

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #25

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:05:17 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >OK - so lets have some details. How? And just saying "increase
> >efficiency", "reduce headcount" is cheating - its got to be
> >x thousand from here, their work to be done instead by ...,
> >that sort of thing.
>
> reduce workload in the DVLA by stopping the silliness of having to declare
> every year that a vehicle is still not on the road...
>
> <dismounts from soapbox>

Well, that's certainly is a good example. The system simply does not
work and anyone who thinks about it for 2 mins can work out why.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #26

In message <[email protected]>
"Gail" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > I think you'll find the UK direct tax burden is one of the lowest in
> > Europe, and indeed the "developed world".
>
> Well that is blatant rubbish.
> I'd really like to know where you get this nonsence from.
> I get mine from the residents of the respective countries.
>

and have a look at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/225505.stm

patricularly the bit "taxes make up 38% of the total (UK) economy,
as oppesed to 45% in Europe as a whole." in teh second paragraph.

It took 2 quick google searches to find that info.


Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #27

In message <4e658d9f4d%[email protected]>
beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>
> "Gail" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I think you'll find the UK direct tax burden is one of the lowest in
> > > Europe, and indeed the "developed world".
> >
> > Well that is blatant rubbish.
> > I'd really like to know where you get this nonsence from.
> > I get mine from the residents of the respective countries.
> >
>
> and have a look at
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/225505.stm
>
> patricularly the bit "taxes make up 38% of the total (UK) economy,
> as oppesed to 45% in Europe as a whole." in teh second paragraph.
>
> It took 2 quick google searches to find that info.
>
>
> Richard

Of course the BBC do have a spell checker......

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #28

On or around Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:30:55 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I'll bet prices have risen. Have a look at
>
>http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm
>
>and have a few myths dispelled.

UK diesel most expensive by a good margin, UK petrol 2nd most expensive (NL
is highest) with a couple of others close behind.

mind, it's well out of date or a very skewed average, it's at least 10p more
than that round here now.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #29

so beamendsltd was, like...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Paul S. Brown" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <snip >>
>
> No EP90, just getting fed up with one-line "solutions" to problems!
>
> Richard

Jeez, that was hardly a "one-line" solution!

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

 

P

Paul S. Brown

Guest

• Aug 24, 2005

• #30

Richard Brookman wrote:

> so beamendsltd was, like...
>> In message <[email protected]>
>> "Paul S. Brown" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <snip >>
>>
>> No EP90, just getting fed up with one-line "solutions" to problems!
>>
>> Richard
>
> Jeez, that was hardly a "one-line" solution!
>

You should see what happens when I become loquacious )

P.

 

G

Gail

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #31

>
> is petrol an essential?

What I want to know is, when are we going to get away from mineral oils and
start producing bio oils?

I noticed that bio diesel is starting to become available abroad already at
significantly lower cost.

Anyone seen it here yet?

Gail

 

G

Gail

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #32

> I'll bet prices have risen. Have a look at
>
> http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm
>
> and have a few myths dispelled.


Well, I think we should campaign for a 'no confidence' vote and get the
government toppled.

That would put paid to Kim Howells stupid policy of taxing us out of our
cars!

Gail

 

G

Gail

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #33

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/225505.stm
>
> patricularly the bit "taxes make up 38% of the total (UK) economy,
> as oppesed to 45% in Europe as a whole." in teh second paragraph.

Judging by the tone of your emails, I'm beginning to think you're a fully
paid up member of the
Labour party. You certainly seem to promote the standard party rhetoric with
a certain tone of commitment.?

Am I wrong?

Gail

 

G

GbH

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #34

Gail wrote:
>> I'll bet prices have risen. Have a look at
>>
>> http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm
>>
>> and have a few myths dispelled.
>
>
> Well, I think we should campaign for a 'no confidence' vote and get
> the government toppled.
>
> That would put paid to Kim Howells stupid policy of taxing us out of
> our cars!
>
> Gail

Not necessarily, you still gotta get the legistlation altered, which is by
no means a given.

--
If Your specification is vague or imprecise, you'll likely get what you
asked for not what you wanted! He who says it cannot be done
should not to interrupt her doing it.

 

G

Gail

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #35

> and have a look at
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/225505.stm
>
> patricularly the bit "taxes make up 38% of the total (UK) economy,
> as oppesed to 45% in Europe as a whole." in teh second paragraph.
>

OK, so where does it breakdown what these rates represent?

How much of that 38% is generated by personal taxes as opposed to
corporation tax.

And it still goes no-where to explaining why fuel costs in the UK or the
cost of living in the UK is higher than anywhere else in the Europe (if not
the world) and why our services are so substandard for the money we're
paying!

I'd like to see a 'realistic' breakdown that represents the true burden of
cost to the British tax payer - including stealth taxes and a European
comparison.

I bet the figures would make very interesting reading.

Gail

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #36

In message <[email protected]>
"Gail" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/225505.stm
> >
> > patricularly the bit "taxes make up 38% of the total (UK) economy,
> > as oppesed to 45% in Europe as a whole." in teh second paragraph.
>
> Judging by the tone of your emails, I'm beginning to think you're a fully
> paid up member of the
> Labour party. You certainly seem to promote the standard party rhetoric with
> a certain tone of commitment.?
>
> Am I wrong?
>

100% - I have no time any of the parties or politicians.

> Gail
>
>

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #37

In message <[email protected]>
"Gail" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > is petrol an essential?
>
> What I want to know is, when are we going to get away from mineral oils and
> start producing bio oils?
>

You can get them now.

> I noticed that bio diesel is starting to become available abroad already at
> significantly lower cost.
>
> Anyone seen it here yet?

Yes - and tried it (a semi-bio) - and the LR hated it, any environmental
benefit (and cost benefit) was wiped out by decreased mpg.

>
> Gail
>
>

The trouble with bio is that, and this is freeley admitted ny those
making it, that there is simply not enough land (or even anywhere near
enough) to grow suffcient on for the world current needs.

How, hydrogen fuel - that has promise (being tried by BMW and by at least
one bus company).

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #38

In message <[email protected]>
"Gail" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > and have a look at
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/225505.stm
> >
> > patricularly the bit "taxes make up 38% of the total (UK) economy,
> > as oppesed to 45% in Europe as a whole." in teh second paragraph.
> >
>
> OK, so where does it breakdown what these rates represent?
>
> How much of that 38% is generated by personal taxes as opposed to
> corporation tax.
>

It doesn't many any odds. Our corporation tax comes from the sale
of goods to customers - so in effect you pay it!

> And it still goes no-where to explaining why fuel costs in the UK or the
> cost of living in the UK is higher than anywhere else in the Europe (if not
> the world) and why our services are so substandard for the money we're
> paying!
>

Because we choose indirect taxation, i.e on fuel, insurance premiums etc.

"Quality of services" is a wholy different thing and has far more to do
with people's attitude to work than money - not a very popular view point,
but ask anyone who runs their own business what a real working day is.....

> I'd like to see a 'realistic' breakdown that represents the true burden of
> cost to the British tax payer - including stealth taxes and a European
> comparison.

You've just had one - if you don't like it, well thats tough.

>
> I bet the figures would make very interesting reading.
>

Use google, it's all there.

> Gail
>
>
>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

P

Paul S. Brown

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #39

beamendsltd wrote:

>>
>> Anyone seen it here yet?
>
> Yes - and tried it (a semi-bio) - and the LR hated it, any environmental
> benefit (and cost benefit) was wiped out by decreased mpg.
>

For a balance point on this - I have run my Disco (200TDI) on BioPower V100
biodiesel (pretty much pure filtered chipfat) and it loves it as long as
the temperature's above 5C - below that it has a hard time starting. I was
seeing slightly better milage once I replaced the fuel filter.

My Rover 75 (BMW 2l Diesel) hated the same stuff.

I'm about to try running a Citroen ZX on it - here's hoping that it likes
it.

The 5% Biodiesel that Tescos sell worked fine in all of the above, but the
higher price for marginal improvements in economy make it not worth doing.

>
> The trouble with bio is that, and this is freeley admitted ny those
> making it, that there is simply not enough land (or even anywhere near
> enough) to grow suffcient on for the world current needs.

On the other hand, as a mitigating factor for the short term, recycled waste
fat is a good approach assuming you're willing to have a storage tank,
whether 200l drum or 1000l minibulk.

>
> How, hydrogen fuel - that has promise (being tried by BMW and by at least
> one bus company).
>

I'd hold out more hope for Methane purely because it's more readily
available (bio waste products - cow farts and rotting vegetation). I'm
wondering if standard LPG kits could be modified to run on both LPG
(Propane/Butane isn't it?) and Methane. Could be a useful medium term
approach if it's doable.

P.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 25, 2005

• #40

On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:34:43 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>How, hydrogen fuel - that has promise (being tried by BMW and by at least
>one bus company).

biggest red herring out, at the moment. In theory, solar or wind-generated
power can crack H from water and be genuinely zero-emission, bar for losses.
However, most H at the moment is produced from methane via various
more-or-less pollutant processes and/or using fossil-generated electricity.

It does remove pollution from hotspots like cities, mind. But it does
nothing to solve the looming crisis of fuel shortage.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.