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Range Rover Classic 1994 softdash alarm problem

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by Gunter Butfuster, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Hi, my rrc won't crank over.
    I put it away for the winter (4 months), now want to do the welding, but it won't crank.
    I left it unarmed and unlocked and disconnected the battery.
    I connected the battery. Put key in the ignition, normal lights on the dash, but then won't crank so the starter is immobilized. Key in door lock, lock and 3 flashes on indicators. Unlock, 1 flash on indicators.
    Can anyone please advise what steps to solve or reset?
    Cheers, Paul
     
  2. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    Did you re synchronise the fob after reconnecting the battery, have tried a replacement battery in the fob, assuming you have remote central locking and therefore have a fob.

    You could always try as a temporary measure single wire from the vehicles battery to the starter relay, if connected correctly the starter motor will turn.
     
  3. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Hi, thanks for reply. I'll give an update.
    1. Fobs never worked. Always used key in door lock.
    2. Noticed that the battery ignition like doesn't come on (don't know if correct or not if immobilized)
    3. When stored, the back door electric windows didn't work, now they do.?????
    4. At first all lights came on the dash binnacle (after many times trying to start inserting key in the ignition and positive lead on and off battery), park brake light and some other warning lights don't illuminate now.
    5. At first, when key turned to start position, only a sort of relay click could be heard below glove box. I hit the starter a few times and now when turning the key you can here a heavy clicking sound from the starter.
    So, right now I'm totally confused as to what could be the source of the problem.
    Just about to throw in the towel and get a land rover specialist to come take a look. Or buy a diagnostic tool. Unless there is a genius on the forum.
    Cheers, Paul
     
  4. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    That a list, investigate and solve one at at time... so.
    1 not a problem as the micro switch in door lock will carry out the same functions, ie central locking plus settings for alarm/immobiliser.
    2 a wire on the rear of the alternator may have come adrift, it’s a thin wire and usually white but the colour isn’t important, and nothing to do with the immobiliser.
    3 hopefully they will stay working. A loose connection maybe
    4 battery flat, or a wire/s broken or unplugged or of fuse has blown.
    5 starter relay clicking or accessory relay clicking, easy to identify when the relay has been found. With the starter its solenoid should click once when it engages.
    An auto electrician may be helpful, also an enthusiast from a local RR club, and I don’t think there’s a diagnostic kit for your RR due the the model year, if there were it would only look a ECUs not vehicle wiring which it seems to be the issue, from what u say.

    So that about it :)
     
  5. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Thanks for info. Checked everything I could. Family member said about a fault reader. I have a 1994 3.9 soft dash. Do know what/where a OBD plug or socket would be if it has one? Before paying out lots of money (don't mind doing that if last resort although it hurts) but really want to learn something about solving the fault. Cheers, Paul
     
  6. Ratae

    Ratae Well-Known Member

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    Fully recharge the battery with a battery charger & try again.
    Clean the battery terminals & leads.
    Try connecting a good jump lead directly from the battery earth terminal to a good clean point on the block.
     
  7. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    OK, many thanks I'll do that this evening.
    I've been checking the flow of current with a multi meter this afternoon.
    There is power to the following from battery:
    The small black box of fuses behind the bettery on teh inner wing. Checked the terminals, power in and power out with a thick brown cable.
    Cable out enter a bigger loom. One to the alternator and one towards the bulkhead.
    There is power to the alternator terminal.
    Under the dash a big brown wire comes in with other wires to a big connector (plug/socket) which runs up to the ignition barrel.
    Tested the brown wire in the connector and is showing 12v.
    On the back of the ignition barrel are 5 soldered wires. One is the big brown.and is permanently live (12v) with ignition key off
    With key on (most lights in binnacle on Except red ignition light.
    The other 4 (in line under the big brown) are Big Yellow (showing 12v)
    Small green/white (showing 12v)
    Small red/white (dead of power)
    Big white (showing 12v)
    Please advise where to check power flow next.
    Any help greatly appreciated.
    Cheers, Paul
     
  8. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    All that appears normal with the wires at the ignition switch, they will appear entering at the main fuse board,
    White is the first switch position, yellow is the second position anf supply voltage to the electrical circuits that they relate to, and the third position will will be white/red for starting the engine via the starter relay and the starter solenoid.
    So check the starter relay is operating when the ignition switch is in position three, if so, then check there’s 12v to the starter solenoid, you may be able to hear it click if it does the solenoid should engage and the starter motor turn.
    It’s not unknown for the starter relay to fail and even the starter solenoid.

    A Haynes manual will help U.
     

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  9. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Hi, ok many thanks for your help. Of course, just realised, I need to have someone turn the key to start position and check power on the soldered terminal on the ignition barrel and then to the relay connector in the passenger foot well. I'll get a new relay tomorrow. I'll look at dropping the starter out as well and try to test it.
    Cheers, Paul
     
  10. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    Yes u do need a little helper for the quickest option, but u can check the continuity through the circuit in it’s normal state with your meter. There will be, or should be, a fuse between the ignition switch and the starter relay.
     
  11. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Oh thank you. I will start looking today. What I'm not sure of is where the flow or direction of flow runs through the ignition red light so I can check back wards to find a break or reason why not illuminating, I guess when key is in position 2, power up the dash and everything, it should also come on?Cheers, Paul
     
  12. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    The secret of successful fault finding with multiple issues, is dealing l with one at a time, so is it engine not cranking or the red ignition/ charging lamp not illuminated. A wiring diagram will help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  13. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Hi absolutely agree. One thing at a time! Only thing is, I'm trying to confirm if they are connected or separate. I've had two different land rover guys tell me the opposite. My problem now is do I call a general auto electrician or an alarm specialist? I've put a new starter relay on, no different.
    Cheers, Paul
     
  14. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    Ok, go back to the relay and remove it. Then with your multimeter check the relay socket terminals for the following.
    Brown wire that’s the relay feed directly from the battery so there should be 12v.
    Brown/red wire that’s the feed out to the starter solenoid.
    Brown/slate is from the AC.
    White/red wire that’s the supply to the relay coil from the ignition switch, so there should be 12v when the switch is in position 3.
    Black wire is to ground/earth which could be interrupted if the gearbox is auto, therefore it’s an engine cranking immobilise function in all the selector positions other N or P.

    The Ignition lamp has it’s feed directly from the alternator on a brown/red wire. So iffy alternator or wire, bulb or bulb connection in the dash.

    The above info is taken from my copy of the wiring diagram which is to 1992MY RR which I have never had to use but I believe it’s correct up to the end of your model of RR. But then maybe not. :D
     
  15. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Thank you ever so much. I can start checking this when rain stops (hopefully very soon) will let you know the results. Cheers, Paul
     
  16. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Regarding ignition lamp.
    On the alternator: Big brown live from battery. Underneath small brown and yellow. Live when key in position 2. Dead when key off. Underneath this is a white wire. Dead on or off with key. So I guess I need to check the bulb/connection to Ignition lamp in cluster. Cheers, Paul
     
  17. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    You’ve found my error, the wire is brown/yellow Not as I said brown /red. So go towards the bulb and locate the brown/red wire and the 12v. With the engine running the 12v should disappear.
    White wire is usually to the rev counter.
     
  18. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Update this morning still raining.
    However, took out instrument cluster. 10 wire connector on RHS which has the live brown and yellow wire. In key pos. 2 it is live 12v. Connector pulled out it is dead. There is also the Red/white ignition wire which is also dead. Can't start car because it won't crank. Which is my problem from the beginning. So it looks like the ignition circuit is disabled. I will go and check the relays with a Red/white wire and report back shortly. Cheers, Paul
     
  19. Gunter Butfuster

    Gunter Butfuster Member

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    Latest update. Rain stopped.
    I put a wire on the small wire terminal on the starter solenoid and got my father to touch the other end on the battery positive terminal. Nothing happened. I put the multi meter on it, while on the battery, and it is getting 12v. I tried this with key off and pos 2. Cheers, Paul
     
  20. discool

    discool Well-Known Member

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    A temporary wire from the battery + and touching the starter solenoid terminal with the ignition on position 2 the motor should crank.
    Have to checked the various earth connections under the bonnet plus the battery supply to the motor, plus the coil top connections are clean and tight as where the EFI ECU gets its signal from.
     
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