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Chris Naylor

Guest
Right, I want to own a landrover. I also need to learn to drive...

I think that I am prety competent when it comes to DIY etc, and am sure
I could work my way around most tasks in owning and servicing my own
vehicle.

So, what are my desires?

Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to insure
(for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner driver, in
pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of kit.

Any suggestions?
--
Chris Naylor
Remove your trousers to reply
http://www.neff.org.uk
http://www.ireland2006eb.org.uk/

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat
you with experience.
 



.. I also need to learn to drive...
>
> I think that I am prety competent when it comes to DIY etc, and am sure
> I could work my way around most tasks in owning and servicing my own
> vehicle.
>
> So, what are my desires?
>
> Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to insure
> (for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner driver, in
> pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of kit.
>
> Any suggestions?


Air portable ( be prepared for repairs), 90 or defender 90, S III. Don't
bother with anything like a LWB at your age insurance companies won't touch
you and you need an addition to your licence for the extra seats ( unless
its a hardtop )


 
"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
>
> . I also need to learn to drive...
>>
>> I think that I am prety competent when it comes to DIY etc, and am
>> sure I could work my way around most tasks in owning and servicing my
>> own vehicle.
>>
>> So, what are my desires?
>>
>> Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to
>> insure (for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner
>> driver, in pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of
>> kit.
>>
>> Any suggestions?

>
> Air portable ( be prepared for repairs), 90 or defender 90, S III.
> Don't bother with anything like a LWB at your age insurance companies
> won't touch you and you need an addition to your licence for the extra
> seats ( unless its a hardtop )
>
>
>


For some reason I had problems insuring a pickup. Check before you buy.
Insurance varies -- a lot!

Derry
 
In news:[email protected],
Derry Argue <[email protected]> blithered:
> "Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> . I also need to learn to drive...
>>>
>>> I think that I am prety competent when it comes to DIY etc, and am
>>> sure I could work my way around most tasks in owning and servicing
>>> my own vehicle.
>>>
>>> So, what are my desires?
>>>
>>> Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to
>>> insure (for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner
>>> driver, in pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit
>>> of kit.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?

>>
>> Air portable ( be prepared for repairs), 90 or defender 90, S III.
>> Don't bother with anything like a LWB at your age insurance companies
>> won't touch you and you need an addition to your licence for the
>> extra seats ( unless its a hardtop )
>>
>>
>>

>
> For some reason I had problems insuring a pickup. Check before you
> buy. Insurance varies -- a lot!
>
> Derry


A Pickup is classed as a commercial vehicle as is a hard top with no windows in
the back (van).

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:38:30 +0100, Chris Naylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Right, I want to own a landrover. I also need to learn to drive...


You sure you want to learn to drive in a Land Rover?

>So, what are my desires?


6 number in the Lotto...

>Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to insure
>(for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner driver, in
>pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of kit.
>
>Any suggestions?


In reality, no car, Land Rover or otherwise, is going to be cheap to
insure. You'll be lucky to get a half decent quote on a Micra.

So, if you're really set on a Landie, perhaps look at an ex-military
vehicle and put it on a collectors policy. The easiest way by far is
to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 

"Chris Naylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Right, I want to own a landrover. I also need to learn to drive...
>
> I think that I am prety competent when it comes to DIY etc, and am
> sure
> I could work my way around most tasks in owning and servicing my own
> vehicle.
>
> So, what are my desires?
>
> Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to
> insure
> (for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner driver, in
> pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of kit.
>
> Any suggestions?


Once upon a time, people learned to drive in slow, heavy, noisy cars
with awkward 3 or 4 speed gearboxes, poor mirrors, limited visibility,
minimal acceleration, un-assisted brakes and steering, no headlamp
flashers, no reversing lights, no rear wipers, hopeless front wipers,
ineffectual (or no) demisters and heaters, and so on. Making the
transition to a slow, heavy etc etc Land Rover wasn't then much of a
problem. But now it might be. Compare and contrast the average driving
school Micra or Yaris with even a relatively sophisticated Land Rover,
like a Defender, and you'll see what I mean. Try reverse parking a
Series Land Rover, at night, in the rain, with the tiny rear window
misted up - as you'll have to, if it's to be an everyday vehicle.

So there'll be one hell of a culture shock.

As for the other requirements: "relatively economical" - well, in terms
of initial purchase price, you can indeed pay the same range of prices
for a Land Rover as a proper car, and spares are often very cheap; but
they all drink fuel like there's no tomorrow (if you assume twice as
much as a normal medium-sized car, you won't be far off), and if you buy
too cheaply or unwisely you could face some serious bills for work
beyond the average novice mechanic. Oil and filter changes, plugs and
points, and so on, are easy enough, but older Land Rovers may well need
major welding. Sometimes the sheer size of Land Rover components makes
a job that much harder. Tyres may be cheap compared with exotic 30
profile rubber bands on the dafter type of modern car, but not compared
with a 155R13.

"cheapish to insure" - ring around and get some insurance quotes before
you get too keen: unless you've got money to burn, you'll probably find
newer Land Rovers prohibitively expensive to insure. People here will
tell of premiums under a hundred quid a year, but that's probably for an
old bugger like me insuring one under a "classic" policy which you can
only buy if you've got another car insured.

"in pretty good nick" - means spending what? at least £1500-£2000 for a
25-50 year-old Series Landy, perhaps three times as much for a 10
year-old Defender.

"has a radio". Forget it. You'll never hear it except when you're
parked up.

"carry quite a bit of kit". In theory, perhaps, but in practice an
Astra estate is a lot more use. Land Rover doors are narrow, and the
load space short, high off the ground, and filled with the spare wheel.
Series Landies have pathetically low legal towing limits, though that
won't concern you as your licence won't cover you for big trailers.

They're great vehicles for their original purpose, and, for many, fun to
play with, in, and under. I run a Range Rover as my everyday car,
because I regularly need its special ability to tow, so I'm certainly
not anti-Solihull, but I can think of many far more suitable cars for a
new, young driver to cut his teeth on.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. [email protected])***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby
(looking for a really nice tdi or lpg Classic Rangey)



 
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:55:43 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:38:30 +0100, Chris Naylor
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Right, I want to own a landrover. I also need to learn to drive...

>
>You sure you want to learn to drive in a Land Rover?
>
>>So, what are my desires?

>
>6 number in the Lotto...
>
>>Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to insure
>>(for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner driver, in
>>pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of kit.
>>
>>Any suggestions?

>
>In reality, no car, Land Rover or otherwise, is going to be cheap to
>insure. You'll be lucky to get a half decent quote on a Micra.
>
>So, if you're really set on a Landie, perhaps look at an ex-military
>vehicle and put it on a collectors policy. The easiest way by far is
>to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
>go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.


Mm. I can attest to that. Insurance for under-25's, even on Group 2/3
insurance that Series SWB landrovers attract is still prohibitly
expensive. It's well worth doing Pass Plus after your test, as this
does help with insurance premuims.

I was lucky enough to pursuade my insurance company to remove the
under-25 weighting on my insurance when i was 22, in view of my
posession of a PCV licence, they originally insisted i would have to
take Pass Plus to get a reduction, until i pointed out that the
standard required for PCV licence is far above that of Pass Plus
anyway.

Alex
 
Kevin Poole wrote...
"They're great vehicles for their original purpose, and, for many, fun to
play with, in, and under. I run a Range Rover as my everyday car,
because I regularly need its special ability to tow, so I'm certainly
not anti-Solihull, but I can think of many far more suitable cars for a
new, young driver to cut his teeth on."

....on the other hand... you might love it!
I had my first landy at the age of 21,('66 series 2a for £600, then '75
series III for £1500, both hard tops and in need of TLC.) I loved it and got
bitten by 'the bug'. I did lots of work on it myself, things I'd never have
contemplated doing on a car. Jobs like changing leaf-springs, drum brakes,
gearboxes etc. Mainly because it was easier to work on - provided you had a
workshop manual and the right tools for an old Landy! I joined a LR club,
went to shows and RTV Trials. Brilliant!
You can't go too fast in them because of the high C of G. So you'd do well
too keep clear of the 'Boy Racer' idiots in baseball caps with their track
suit bottoms tucked into their socks, (what's that about?). You can fit your
fancy stereo in, and there's loads of room in the back for a huge sub woofer
and amp...or the girlfriend! ;)
Don't worry about the anti 4x4 pillocks and tree huggers, Landys are very
recyclable. Second-hand parts available everywhere!
There are fun days and centres that have private land for playing off road
on should you want too.

Personally I think you should try to get a 90 Hardtop, failing that a series
III Hardtop.

If you get one and don't like it, you can easily sell it on and at least you
can say you'd tried.

Good Luck.
Wolverine.
Defender 110CSW


 

The easiest way by far is
> to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
> go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.
>



Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed as
not being insured by the boys in blue. Same applies to the driving of a
spouses vehicle on the 3rd party clause, one reson Norwich is getting rid of
it.


 
In message <[email protected]>, GbH
<[email protected]> writes
>A Pickup is classed as a commercial vehicle as is a hard top with no
>windows in the back (van).


Really? My hard top doesn't cost that much to insure with NFU, and
no-one ever discussed with me whether it was being insured as a
commercial vehicle. They just quoted a price. Maybe it was.

For the OP, all I can do is repeat what I say quite often - that we had
2 Panda 4x4's and both sons spent their time with these. They travelled
all over the country and launched boats into the sea. They were also
Group 1 insurance, and perfect for teaching about the perils of rust.
And Fiats always made you learn about electrics and other maintenance.
Great, fairly simple, cars for young people who do things and don't care
what they look like. Terrible shame there was such a gap between the end
of the last model and the recently introduced new one.
When I talked to insurers about our 18 year olds and the possibility of
a Landie, all I heard was "No". I didn't try the specialist insurers
then, though.
--
Bill
 
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:36:48 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
>> go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.

>
>Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed as
>not being insured by the boys in blue.


Excuse me, but that's complete nonsense.

 
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:38:30 +0100, Chris Naylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to insure
>(for a 20yr old new driver),


My landy was the first car i insured in my name when i was about 20 or
so. I found it to be a lot cheaper to insure than the cars i had at
the same time (a couple of old saabs and a volvo).

The landy started at about £350/year i think compared to my car which
was £1000-£1500/year.

I had an old series 2a, so it gets classic car insurance - which is a
lot cheaper than normal insurance!
Try all the classic insurers that advertise in the mags. I've been
with 3 or 4 of them over the years!. They all have different age
limits (some are over 25s only, but not all)

 
Beg to differ, but one of my colleuges fell foul beware


"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:36:48 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >> to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
> >> go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.

> >
> >Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed

as
> >not being insured by the boys in blue.

>
> Excuse me, but that's complete nonsense.
>



 
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:10:38 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:36:48 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
>> >> go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.
>> >
>> >Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed

>as
>> >not being insured by the boys in blue.

>>
>> Excuse me, but that's complete nonsense.


>Beg to differ, but one of my colleuges fell foul beware


Can cite the relevant legislation?


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 
Hirsty's <[email protected]> wrote:

>> The easiest way by far is
>> to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
>> go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.

>
> Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed as
> not being insured by the boys in blue. Same applies to the driving of a
> spouses vehicle on the 3rd party clause, one reson Norwich is getting rid of
> it.


Surely the question is "Is this acceptable to the insurance company?"
ie: "Will they pay if you have an accident?"

If it is then you are legally insured.
If not you aren't.

nigelH


 
In message <[email protected]>
Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:10:38 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:36:48 GMT, "Hirsty's" <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then
> >> >> go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.
> >> >
> >> >Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed

> >as
> >> >not being insured by the boys in blue.
> >>
> >> Excuse me, but that's complete nonsense.

>
> >Beg to differ, but one of my colleuges fell foul beware

>
> Can cite the relevant legislation?
>
>


Surely the problem would be that if you are the main user and not
delared as being such then your insurance would be invalid (since
you would have lied to the insurance company), so in the event of
a claim you would not have insurance. But if you had to produce your
documents to the Police, as your name would presumambly be on the
certficate in some form, then they would be unable to tell if the
cover was valid or not. In other words it would not be illegal as such
(since you would appear to have cover) until things went wrong.

Well, I think I know what I mean.....

Richard


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:36:29 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Can cite the relevant legislation?

>
>Surely the problem would be that if you are the main user and not
>delared as being such then your insurance would be invalid (since
>you would have lied to the insurance company), so in the event of
>a claim you would not have insurance. But if you had to produce your
>documents to the Police, as your name would presumambly be on the
>certficate in some form, then they would be unable to tell if the
>cover was valid or not. In other words it would not be illegal as such
>(since you would appear to have cover) until things went wrong.
>
>Well, I think I know what I mean.....


I think there's confusion over what the Law requires and what the
insurance company may feel is adequate. The law requires the vehicle
to be insured to at least pay out for any third party liability.

Provided that the cover provided is for 'any driver', or 'named
drivers', or proposer plus spouse - and also provided that the person
driving falls into one of those, and also provided that the 'use' is
covered within the scope of the policy - the law is happy. I cannot
find any reference to 'main user' in this respect, neither could our
court clerk (although it's not really her area of expertise).

Many insurance companies require that the cover is in the name of the
registered keeper (note, the registered keeper is not necessarily the
legal owner).


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:40:07 +0100, "Nigel Hewitt"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Surely the question is "Is this acceptable to the insurance company?"
>ie: "Will they pay if you have an accident?"
>
>If it is then you are legally insured.
>If not you aren't.


Not at all. Insurance companies are weaseling parasites who may, in
the event of a claim, decide you're not covered as you have fluffy
dice hanging from the rear view mirror. However until tested, you may
very well have perfectly acceptable insurance cover so far as regard
the requirements of the law.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message

snip

> Many insurance companies require that the cover is in the name of the
> registered keeper (note, the registered keeper is not necessarily the
> legal owner).


And others (including Hastings Direct) require that the cover is in the name
of the main user and not the registered keeper.

Dave W


 
Chris Naylor wrote:
> Right, I want to own a landrover. I also need to learn to drive...
>
> I think that I am prety competent when it comes to DIY etc, and am sure
> I could work my way around most tasks in owning and servicing my own
> vehicle.
>
> So, what are my desires?
>
> Looking for something that is relatively economical, cheapish to insure
> (for a 20yr old new driver), suitable for a newish/learner driver, in
> pretty good nick, has a radio and can carry quite a bit of kit.
>
> Any suggestions?


Hi Chris,

Whilst a Landie is obviously a desireable vehicle to own it is
definately not the best thing to learn in and unless it is a relatively
modern one will not meet the criteria of a vehicle suitable for taking
your driving test in. Check out the DSA web site - http://tinyurl.com/777cx

I have known examiners cite the speed requirement of older Land Rovers
as the reason for refusing to conduct a test and unless you have
after-market seats fitted then there are no integral head restraints on
older Landy seats.

The sensible option (although not the cheapest) is to learn in a normal
car with a professional driving instructor. Use his car to pass your
test in and then move on to a Land Rover. Oh, and don't forget to take
the Pass Plus course.

You can get some good insurance discounts by then taking an advanced
driving test after which some insurance companies will waive the
under-25 loading. Ring around and check what they say; get them to
confirm the discount/waiver in writing.

HTH. Good luck with learning to drive :)

--
Regards

Steve G
 
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