R380 Gearbox input/pilot shaft seal replacement

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Barbados

Barbados

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Hi Mates,
I was looking for the said seal and was sold a seal bearing the name Angus DPSM 28477V GACO 24 however,
I searched online and could not find any info on this seal.

The reason why I was looking it up, it seems to be about 1mm thinner than the original one that came off, inner and outer dia seems fine.
Not to sure how critical this is, I will still use some strong silicone on its outer diameter where it sits in the housing.

I have attached a pic, should I have any concerns, why no info online about this seal?
Cheers.

.
DSC_5462.jpg
 
Barbados said:
Hi Mates,
I was looking for the said seal and was sold a seal bearing the name Angus DPSM 28477V GACO 24 however,
I searched online and could not find any info on this seal.

The reason why I was looking it up, it seems to be about 1mm thinner than the original one that came off, inner and outer dia seems fine.
Not to sure how critical this is, I will still use some strong silicone on its outer diameter where it sits in the housing.

I have attached a pic, should I have any concerns, why no info online about this seal?
Cheers.

.View attachment 112542
Click to expand...
that will make no difference as long as od and id are correct
 
boguing said:
Is that FTC5303? If yes, I've got a new one here (ready for a rebuild) which I can measure for you tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I have a new one Boguing, the measurements matches up to the old one, its the design I was concerned about. See which of the two you have based on the pics I posted please. Thanks.

jamesmartin said:
that will make no difference as long as od and id are correct
Click to expand...

Jmaes,
My concern was the difference in the height and design. The older one is thicker and has a ribbed outer surface and serrated inner shaft surface area like that one in the first pic. The new one, is smooth and thinner with a different inner surface so I was concerned about proper fitment, longevity and durability. When I looked up the FTC5303 online, it shows the original looking one, but though the one I bought is in a Corteco box, its not the same design.

Thanks mates.
gufero-spojkova-hridel-1978-0.jpg

571059.JPG
 
Mine's like the top picture, ribbed etc.. I'm not starting my rebuild just yet - I could post it out airmail to you and I'll get a replacement sent to me?
 
Jmaes,
My concern was the difference in the height and design. The older one is thicker and has a ribbed outer surface and serrated inner shaft surface area like that one in the first pic. The new one, is smooth and thinner with a different inner surface so I was concerned about proper fitment, longevity and durability. When I looked up the FTC5303 online, it shows the original looking one, but though the one I bought is in a Corteco box, its not the same design.

Thanks mates.
View attachment 112581
View attachment 112582[/QUOTE]
just depends on the seal used or supplied they all fit and work but there are different types, id say 90%of boxes ive stripped have a plain seal, as long as its an oe i wouldnt worry
 
Barbados said:
I have a new one Boguing, the measurements matches up to the old one, its the design I was concerned about. See which of the two you have based on the pics I posted please. Thanks.



Jmaes,
My concern was the difference in the height and design. The older one is thicker and has a ribbed outer surface and serrated inner shaft surface area like that one in the first pic. The new one, is smooth and thinner with a different inner surface so I was concerned about proper fitment, longevity and durability. When I looked up the FTC5303 online, it shows the original looking one, but though the one I bought is in a Corteco box, its not the same design.

Thanks mates.
View attachment 112581
View attachment 112582
Click to expand...

Major things to consider with radial lipped shaft seals are correct OD and ID diameters and pay attention to the lip, i.e. the bit that makes contact with and seals to shaft and the lip style, the lip works as a seal/oil scraper to stop the oil leaking out, some are designed to withstand considerable pressure from one or both sides (the gearbox SHOULD be neutral case pressure if the breather is OK). In this case it will probably have a spring on the lip making it an S-lip, the spring helps to give the lib stability, maintain it's shape and pulls it in tighter to the shaft.

The thickness of the overall seal ought not to cause any issues and the outer ribbed or smooth surface will not make any major difference in this application, generally the ribbed ones are better at sealing at they have a high point of contact loading - rather than the whole thing making contact the ribs are under increased contact pressure and thus seal better. If the new seal is not the same thickness then do your best to install the new seal so that the lip runs on the same polished point as the shaft as before.

Consider these points and install it - I would - unless it's a unknown brand then I would throw it in the bin!
 
It may even be beneficial depending upon where the seal lips run, if you have a groove in your shaft then a different seating depth may put the sealing lips on a 'fresh' / unworn part of the shaft and give you a better seal?
 
Kwakerman said:
It may even be beneficial depending upon where the seal lips run, if you have a groove in your shaft then a different seating depth may put the sealing lips on a 'fresh' / unworn part of the shaft and
give you a better seal?
Click to expand...

It depends on the seal, newer teflon seals could cope with this, some manufacturers even call for it to be placed on a new 'prepared' part of the shaft, but then these seals also tend to be ideally used with shaft sleeves because they are relatively rough and will wear a groove eventually, but older style (and it looks like a standard radial lipped shaft seal) would be worn out in quick time if it ran on the unpolished "rough" part of the shaft.

There is a lot of science involved in these... I would expect in this case the shaft will not be so worn as to cause issues, and that having the lip run on same polished point on the shaft as before would be my advice in this situation.
 
Thanks James Discomania and Quakerman...sorry I am only now reading your replies.

I am only being anal about this seal since its a pain in the backside to change. I am concerned why there is this Angus-GACO seal and the original one being sold as the same FTC5303. If this was an easier accessible seal to replace, I wont give a rats toushie about it, I could have bought and even stocked if needed to.

I have worked on many BMW's, VWs and Audis which use the same style ribbed seal withe the S lip as the original one that came out from my Landy, so why are two different seal designs being sold? Is the Angus-GACO a better replacement? I know some companies/manufacturers will make an upgraded seal to address flaws and weaknesses so I was wondering.

The LR spares seller here told me that they have sold a few of this Angus seal which does come in a Corteco box and never had complaints, there is even a Japanese seller who realized that there is a difference in design and noted the seal size. They must have had queries about the seal too. http://rangerover.morimori-forest.com/index.php?FTC5303 オイルシール トランスミッションR380/LT77 ランドローバー

Qwakerman the pilot shaft seems perfect with the eye but I will measure with a caliper for wear, from what I have seen though the shaft will rotate around the same spot with either seal.
 
Hi mates,

Bouging just sent me a link to a supplier, to add to more mystery there are two material types the seal ribbed is made of:

One is manufactured In Nitrile Rubber and the other manufactured In Original Polyacrylic ACM.

Nitrile properties http://www.timcorubber.com/rubber-materials/nitrile-rubber/applications.htm


ACM – Polyacrylic Rubber properties
The key properties of Polyacrylic (ACM) are its resistance to hot hydraulic oil and oxidation.

  • It is also resistant to ozone and weathering and in these respects it is much superior to Nitrile Rubber.
  • Water resistance is poor, as is its resistance to acids and alkalis. Low temperature applications are limited to -10°C.
  • Polyacrylic has very low resilience below 70°C and has found use in vibration damping.
  • Typical applications include automotive transmissions components requiring resistance to hot oil or fuel.
  • Typical working temperature range: -10°C to 150°C
 
Kwakerman said:
It may even be beneficial depending upon where the seal lips run, if you have a groove in your shaft then a different seating depth may put the sealing lips on a 'fresh' / unworn part of the shaft and give you a better seal?[/QUOTE


On some large compressors we sometime's put a small spacer behind the seal holder on the main input shafts so the new seal runs on an unworn part of the shaft. Better still are the thin shafts sleeves made by SKF which give a nice new surface to worn shafts.
Click to expand...
 
Ray and wammers..surprisingly the pilot shaft has no wear nor no grove, I have both types seals now, I will install the ribbed one sent to me by the great UK pal :)
I will inspect again and look into shims as you guys suggested.

Thanks for the replies mates...you guys awesome.
 
Barbados said:
Ray and wammers..surprisingly the pilot shaft has no wear nor no grove, I have both types seals now, I will install the ribbed one sent to me by the great UK pal :)
I will inspect again and look into shims as you guys suggested.

Thanks for the replies mates...you guys awesome.
Click to expand...
If the shaft is good and the seal is good quality then should be fine, we only resort to shims and sleeves when you get a groove in the shaft, sometimes they have run for 80,000 hrs.
Hope yours seals for a few years.
 
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