Questions Regarding ORPA's

Reading other posts on here, it would seem that routes marked as ORPA's which may or may not have vehicular rights and the only way to confirm is to contact your local Rights of Way Officer.As I understand it, ORPA's are more properly known as Unclassified Unsealed County Roads?

So looking at some ORPA's around Glyn Cariog, I decided to google the Definitive Map for Wrexham and found the page:

WCBC: Public Rights of Way Definitive Map

The surprise to me is that they only show BOATS, Bridleways and Footpaths?

Is that to be expected? No ORPA/UUCR's?

I read somewhere else that UUCR's should appear on the local councils List of Streets, and this *usually* means there is a public vehicular right of way?

After talking to somebody from the ROW office while he was dealing with a footpath issue a couple of years back, I get the impression they are anti vehicular access on BOATS and UUCR's?

I say this because I was informed that one particular BOAT was in fact really only a bridleway and that I should not drive it..

I later confirmed this was just the individual officers biased and incorrect opinion, and that no TRO's or anything were in force..

Anybody else come across similar bias?

Regards,

Peter

My council wasn't biased but also they didn't seem interested. I've tried to get in contact with my ROW officer before. I thought it would be a good thing to do. At the time I had a couple of questions about byways with unclear tro's. But they couldn't rush me off the phone quick enough. They had no interest in talking to someone actively using the lanes and just told me to check the councils website. It seemed to me they really didn't care what was happening on their byways.

Sadly Pete and Locky this is the case with alot of councils.

Either they don't have enough time to spend on our little corner hobby or they are actively against it and dont want to know about your question let alone answer them.

Pete, your right though with UCR's, unclassified county roads are exactly that ' a road' they appear, or should appear on the councils list of streets. You wont however find out the kind of terrain it is without getting the council to tell you.

I spoke to a ROW officer from nottingham council a few years ago on the phone and he told me not to drive any of the lanes i had called him about. I took it as gospel and didnt drive them. I then emailed the address on the website a week later to see if they were open yet and i got a reply saying they werent closed in the first place. So i called again to speak to someone else and was put through to a female who couldnt have been more helpful she told me i had probably spoken to George who is an active member of the RA and is obviously very anti 4x4.

Its very sad but happens. Make sure you ask for the legal position and any TRO's.

Thanks for the clarification on that..

If a lane is TRO'd, surely the Council are required to sign post as such? I know they are supposed to publish in the local paper.

My thoughts are that if driving a UUCR, and I was approached by a police officer to tell me its closed, if it wasn't sign posted as such, that surely would be a reasonable defence?

I mean we don't check for TRO's before we make journeys on tarmaced roads and legally our right of vehicular access is the same?

TROs should be posted yes. LAncs (where I am!) are quite helpful in providing info. ORPAs on OS can be UCRs. The only restrictions on the ones I've driven were the speed limits! 30 and 60 respectively! Any more than 6 mph on some parts and you'd give your Landy a bloody good kicking hehe , or possibly die...

Diff.

PeteE said:

Thanks for the clarification on that..

If a lane is TRO'd, surely the Council are required to sign post as such? I know they are supposed to publish in the local paper.

My thoughts are that if driving a UUCR, and I was approached by a police officer to tell me its closed, if it wasn't sign posted as such, that surely would be a reasonable defence?

I mean we don't check for TRO's before we make journeys on tarmaced roads and legally our right of vehicular access is the same?

Click to expand...

LOL, just say your sat nav directed you. Mine has tried to take me across fields

There's also a case that when a lane (Byway) isn't signposted with the correct TRO Notice, but is gated, bolted or otherwise blocked, can that obstruction be abated?

I'm of the opinion that yes they can be! I might be wrong in the eyes of the law but it's what many reasonable people would think.

Unfortunately, UUCR's and ORPA's are often private roads, so their signage comes under other regulations and might simply be a painted '**** orfff moi Laand!!' but is still legally effective!

It's a minefield, which is why many of us _do_ sit at home emailing, snailmailing, telephoning, poring over maps, old and new and generally working our way through paperwork. Rest assured that any 'proper' run I take people is (probably) legal. My recce runs might not be, mind .. .. Which is also why I don't give out lanes easily, but don't mind people tagging along .. it's up to you to record them if you want!