Putting a 200tdi into a 110 V8

Hi, I know converting a V8 to diesel is sacrilegious to many but some things have got to be done. Also I know the subject has been covered many times already but I really want/need to put a 200tdi into a V8 110 because (a) I've got a 1985 110 with a perfect chassis, blown V8 lump and a reconditioned LT85 gearbox with less than a 1000 miles on it (b) also lying around in the garden I've got a good disco 200tdi engine with all ancillaries and (c) I am planning on building a Landicamper on under 500 squid so really need to use these bits to stay on budget. I've already got a 110 200tdi on a LT77 that I stuck in myself that's still doing the trick after nearly 10 years.

Anyway, I think I am right in saying that a 200tdi won't fit onto a LT85 even if I move the engine mountings (no big deal as I've got a welder friend who served his time building Santana Chassis') However, is it possible to swap the belhousing on the LT85 to a LT77 one, which I also have lying around in the garden (it's from a trashed box), and then fit the new engine OR is it possible to fit an adapter plate (if so anyone know where I can find one). Furthermore, even if one of these options was possible would the gear ratios be so far out as to make driving the finished vehicle completely unpractical.

Any help greatly appreciated. Cheers Defandi

you cant swap an lt85 bell housing you would need an adapter plate, all the boxes have the same ratio in 4th so non are very far apart, another v8 or a full 300tdi conversion would be my choice but for 500 and a disco engine your looking at a bit of a bodge with whatever you do

Cheers for that. Not completely detered yet. Maybe an adapter plate but the're not cheap, have got one somewhere that used to connect a Toyota 2.5 TD onto the LT77 in my other 110 before it blew and I replaced it with a Disco 200tdi. They can't be too difficult to make if I can find a suitable piece of aliminium plate. Or alternatively I could try and find an LT77 or LT380 in a scrappies (my mates got a spare Disco 2 TD5 LT380 box) although that would involve switching to a short bell housing I believe. Whatever it's not gonna be too straight forward.

v8 defenders have a long bell housing gear box as engine is like the 300tdi put right up to the rad,though if you used a disco box you would be best with an ashcroft selector adapter to fit defender gear box to gear stick etc,though fitting any box apart from lt85 would require another tunnel

This is the dilemma I'm facing,

My v8 original fitment in my 110 csw has become noisy and tapping, on taking the inlet off and removing the valley gasket the cams worn, lifters are worn and I'm gonna check the crank today as soon as the black clouds have vanished. I have the option of a 300 or a 200 but that needs rebuilding. I have a disco box that will mount the 300 but need rad intercooler manifold and turbo and downpipe and diesel tank (removed petrol tank and now has only lpg tanks). After scratching my head for a fortnight I've decided to rebuild the v8, not sure I'm doing the right thing as the reliability of the tdi and easily available diesel compared with lpg among other things has got me slightly nervous as to whether I'm better spending 500 fitting the tdi or doing a full rebuild to the v8.

I love my v8 and up until now where it's unusable for risk of completely wrecking the motor I would never have considered going diesel in this landy. Previous 90 and disco were both diesels and I loved em,but the v8 gets under your skin lol.

i know a lot of people love the V8s and I suppose they have their good points but I would have a tdi any day. I drove my mates V8 (the one I am planning of converting) and found the performance similar to a tdi but with half the mpg. As I am building an overlander V8 petrol is a bit of a stupidity really: very poor fuel consumption, heavy and potentially explosive. Also in an emergency you can just chuck some veggie oil in a tdi. I did my own conversion nearly 10 years ago and a 200tdi just seems like the natural workhorse engine for a Defender, reliable, good fuel consumption, no electronics, Bosch pump and I've never felt it to be underpowered even towing trailers over 2 tons on mountain roads the likes of which you wouldn't find in the UK. Maybe I am just a sad pragmatist lacking in romance.

@defandi - out of interest, what height AMSL are you please?

And.... what is the climate like in the autumn?

TIA

defandi said:

i know a lot of people love the V8s and I suppose they have their good points but I would have a tdi any day. I drove my mates V8 (the one I am planning of converting) and found the performance similar to a tdi but with half the mpg. As I am building an overlander V8 petrol is a bit of a stupidity really: very poor fuel consumption, heavy and potentially explosive. Also in an emergency you can just chuck some veggie oil in a tdi. I did my own conversion nearly 10 years ago and a 200tdi just seems like the natural workhorse engine for a Defender, reliable, good fuel consumption, no electronics, Bosch pump and I've never felt it to be underpowered even towing trailers over 2 tons on mountain roads the likes of which you wouldn't find in the UK. Maybe I am just a sad pragmatist lacking in romance.

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Dunno about pragmatist, maybe just a realist lol.

You have me seriously wondering what to do now. Ive done trips upto Scotland and got quite good mileage, I mean Dumfries to junction 23 @ Haydock on the m6 it only took 20 quid to fill back up. So forty litres to do a heck of a lot of miles although that was probably the only time I've ever had such good mileage. I've converted normally aspirated to tdi in a 110 which was simple enough apart from the snow and gales. I woke up with the best intentions of stripping this engine ready to get the shell sizes and piston sizes to order bits but now you have made me doubt again lol cheers for that haha, unsure what to do now will need to seriously think about it.

Disco1BFG said:

@defandi - out of interest, what height AMSL are you please?

And.... what is the climate like in the autumn?

TIA

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Just under a 1000m ie over 3000 feet. Weather in Autumn in the Sierra Nevada is potentially very nice with day time temps in the twenties centigrade but with potential for extreme rain, people died in flash floods in September last year near here. From mid October on it gets below freezing most nights.

defandi said:

Just under a 1000m ie over 3000 feet. Weather in Autumn in the Sierra Nevada is potentially very nice with day time temps in the twenties centigrade but with potential for extreme rain, people died in flash floods in September last year near here. From mid October on it gets below freezing most nights.

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Thanks. We are only about 1500 feet - but I think the problem is that in the autumn, we can spend days on end in the clouds - everything is dripping wet!

Disco1BFG said:

Thanks. We are only about 1500 feet - but I think the problem is that in the autumn, we can spend days on end in the clouds - everything is dripping wet!

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Yea I am from the lakes and I know the feeling only too well but here at the moment it's almost too hot to go outside. Swings and roundabouts..............

V8 pros:

Smooth
Quiet
Refined
Sounds great
Linear powerband
Good cruiser
Rarity
Less pollution
Smells nice

V8 cons:

Thirsty
Does not like getting wet
More complex
Old design/high wear
Frequent oil changes

Diesel pros

Fuel efficient
Simple
Reliable
Does not mind getting wet

Diesel cons

Noisy
Rattly/unrefined
Stinks
No power off boost
Terrible cruiser
Diesel all over your hands at the pump

nesponge said:

V8 pros:

Smooth
Quiet
Refined
Sounds great
Linear powerband
Good cruiser
Rarity
Less pollution
Smells nice

V8 cons:

Thirsty
Does not like getting wet
More complex
Old design/high wear
Frequent oil changes

Diesel pros

Fuel efficient
Simple
Reliable
Does not mind getting wet

Diesel cons
an back
Noisy
Rattly/unrefinede
Stinks
No power off boost
Terrible cruiser
Diesel all over your hands at the pump

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.

Probably agree with most of what you say. However, cruise and Defender 110 is a bit of an oximoron, you don't cruise off road (it's 3km to the nearest tarmac) and whats the cruising speed gonna be once I've built a campervan back onto one???? I've been driving diesel cars for 20 years and they're fantastic cruisers. Also I find 200tdi's still have power (torque) at low revs outside of the turbo boost, certainly not as marked as some TD cars I've driven. Petrol engines, including V8's, still have power bands outside of which they can be a bit sluggish. What are V8's like for overheating? My 200tdi 110 is generally OK and it really gets tested ie towing mini-diggers up huge hills in 30 plus temps although it would struggle without twin electric fans I think. Horses for courses I suppose but as I said for an expedition vehicles it's a no contest and for me Torque, fuel consumption and reliability are paramount and sound virtually irrelevent. In fact maybe I even like rattly old diesels, something agricultural about them and for me a 110 is an agricultural workhorse. A V8 petrol is for racing and revving at traffic lights not really my thing.

Overheating is an issue if you don't have the right stat fitted and your rad and water pump isn't in good Condition. I have an electric fan fitted on mine so I don't have these issues like I used to. As for revving at the lights it's not my bag tbh, offroad ability is amazing though, and towing heavy farm trailers is not an issue offroad, i used mine a couple of years ago more or less on a daily basis after felling trees and digging the stumps out with a jcb the wood and stumps all had to be removed.

I have seen v8s struggle offroad but tbh these tended to be abused engines with clutch issues.

For expeditions though as you say diesel is probably the best option, I'd love to travel Europe but with the v8 in I wouldn't attempt it. It's one thing traveling Wales and Scotland and breaking down or having issues there's a wee bit of comfort knowing your still in the UK lol. I'm not to knowledgeable on v8s other than the 3.5, I've towed caravans and not had power issues and I'm sure the 3.9 or bigger would certainly not struggle. It's hard to call as it all depends on preference, for every fault I find someone would say they never had it, for every fault or pro anyone finds there's always someone who's had a different experience. As for reliability and ease of working on I'd go diesel for an expedition, everyday drive or holiday vehicle I'd keep my V although maybe that's because Its what's in my landy, I have a 300 but don't have diesel tank and sender, rad or intercooler or turbo maybe if I did now my engine has died I'd have swapped it for the tdi? Lol either way bud hope you get there in the end

defandi said:

i know a lot of people love the V8s and I suppose they have their good points but I would have a tdi any day. I drove my mates V8 (the one I am planning of converting) and found the performance similar to a tdi but with half the mpg. As I am building an overlander V8 petrol is a bit of a stupidity really: very poor fuel consumption, heavy and potentially explosive. Also in an emergency you can just chuck some veggie oil in a tdi. I did my own conversion nearly 10 years ago and a 200tdi just seems like the natural workhorse engine for a Defender, reliable, good fuel consumption, no electronics, Bosch pump and I've never felt it to be underpowered even towing trailers over 2 tons on mountain roads the likes of which you wouldn't find in the UK. Maybe I am just a sad pragmatist lacking in romance.

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An old 3.5 low compression V8 is not really a fair or valid comparison tbh. Although a good running one should still out perform a Tdi.

As for mpg, similar. A Tdi in a 90 will average 24-28mpg for the most part. A V8 carb in a 90 15-19mpg.

So not really half the mpg. If you are doing say 4000 miles a year in the vehicle. The total fuel cost difference would be tiny. If you are doing 10,000 miles a year, then yes, much more noticeable.

However Rover V8's are cheap to buy. A nice 3.9, even being strangled on twin Stromberg or SU carbs will massively out perform any Tdi. If you can convert to EFI then more power again and better mpg.

My auto 4.6 Range Rover will easily do 20-22mpg on a run. A 110 shouldn't be massively different. Maybe slightly better with a manual if you don't go crazy on your cruising speed.

300bhp/ton said:

An old 3.5 low compression V8 is not really a fair or valid comparison tbh. Although a good running one should still out perform a Tdi.

As for mpg, similar. A Tdi in a 90 will average 24-28mpg for the most part. A V8 carb in a 90 15-19mpg.

So not really half the mpg. If you are doing say 4000 miles a year in the vehicle. The total fuel cost difference would be tiny. If you are doing 10,000 miles a year, then yes, much more noticeable.

However Rover V8's are cheap to buy. A nice 3.9, even being strangled on twin Stromberg or SU carbs will massively out perform any Tdi. If you can convert to EFI then more power again and better mpg.

My auto 4.6 Range Rover will easily do 20-22mpg on a run. A 110 shouldn't be massively different. Maybe slightly better with a manual if you don't go crazy on your cruising speed.

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Yea very true. To be fair to the V8s we should be comparing a mid 80's 3500 V8 with a 2,25 or 2.5 N/A (still only 68bhp) or pre-TDI 2.5TD as were the diesel options in 110s at the time. Then without a doubt the V8 is preferable especially if gassed, although that's only feasible if you live somewhere where you can by it and not a good overlanding option. A tdi against a similar age V8 petrol is a no contest on power but still diesel will always have certain advantages as mentioned earlier. Also much of this discussion is about transplanting more modern engines into older 90/110s so it is about comparing a mid 80ś V8 to a tdi. They actually have very similar power outputs slightly more bhp for the V8 and slightly more torque for the tdi, however, that torque is produced at much lower revs giving the tdi's a big traction advantage at low speeds in slippy conditions. Still at the end of the day it's all personal preference relating to usage and priorities.

I find Mpg crashes on my 110 when I go much above 60mph. Might be something to with aerodynamics I suspect LOL. Cruise at 50-55mph with no hills and I can get 30ish mpg at 70-80mph it's getting more towards 20mpg but not really what they were designed for was it.

300bhp/ton said:

So not really half the mpg. If you are doing say 4000 miles a year in the vehicle. The total fuel cost difference would be tiny. If you are doing 10,000 miles a year, then yes, much more noticeable.

However Rover V8's are cheap to buy. A nice 3.9, even being strangled on twin Stromberg or SU carbs will massively out perform any Tdi. If you can convert to EFI then more power again and better mpg.

.

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That is exactly the way I look at it. The Disco does 3-4k miles a year, almost all towing.
A diesel would get slightly better mileage on towing, but not vastly so.
And because I only paid 1200 quid for the whole Disco with a years ticket, I figure I already have a few grand in the bank compared to what people will normally pay for a big able vehicle!

Turboman said:

That is exactly the way I look at it. The Disco does 3-4k miles a year, almost all towing.
A diesel would get slightly better mileage on towing, but not vastly so.
And because I only paid 1200 quid for the whole Disco with a years ticket, I figure I already have a few grand in the bank compared to what people will normally pay for a big able vehicle!

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Yea very often the extra price for diesels is not worth it. I remember back in the 80s being amazed at the fuel consumption/ motorway cruising ability of my mates Peugeot 205 1.9 diesel, a revolutionary engine at the time, but when I looked at buying one I calculated it would take me several years to make up the price difference.

However, this discussion is about replacing a V8 petrol with a tdi in an early 110. Generally the V8s gets replaced because they no longer work, ie blown/cracked heads etc. Rebuiding if you can't do it youself is expensive ie minimum 1500 quid, second hand/ MOT failure prices seem to be about the same for Discovery petrol V8 or tdi's. I've done a 200tdi conversion myself (Disco 200tdi from an MOT failure with all ancilleries for 500 quid) and think it's not beyond most DIY mechanics abilities but I wouldn't know about putting a Discovery V8 petrol in a an early 110.

So it looks like the way to go is to buy an MOT failure Discovery 300tdi, mechanicaly sound with rusted body, alloy wheels, good tyres and a non leaking steering box (LOL) all of which would come in useful. The 110 has got a non PS box and power steering is nice. The engine would fit on my LT85 gearbox and I really like the Discovery 1 seats I've got in my 110 plus there's a few other bits and pieces that could come in handy. It's gonna blow my budget but maybe I can sell my 200tdi engine. I am in England working for a few weeks soon so if anyone knows of an ideal donor vehicle going cheap (more LOL). Then all I have to do is drive it back to Spain without an MOT. Gone from hopeless pragmatist to hopeless optimist in the space of one thread.

defandi said:

Yea very often the extra price for diesels is not worth it. I remember back in the 80s being amazed at the fuel consumption/ motorway cruising ability of my mates Peugeot 205 1.9 diesel, a revolutionary engine at the time, but when I looked at buying one I calculated it would take me several years to make up the price difference.

However, this discussion is about replacing a V8 petrol with a tdi in an early 110. Generally the V8s gets replaced because they no longer work, ie blown/cracked heads etc. Rebuiding if you can't do it youself is expensive ie minimum 1500 quid, second hand/ MOT failure prices seem to be about the same for Discovery petrol V8 or tdi's. I've done a 200tdi conversion myself (Disco 200tdi from an MOT failure with all ancilleries for 500 quid) and think it's not beyond most DIY mechanics abilities but I wouldn't know about putting a Discovery V8 petrol in a an early 110.

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3.5's don't tend to crack heads or anything like that. Let's not forget a tdi uses the same block as a 2.25 and is just as old in design and tech as the V8 is.

You can also buy V8's dirt cheap. I bought a 3.9 off eBay complete with a transfer box and auto gearbox for £350 all in. Then sold the gearbox and transfer box cheap for £120 to a friend. So the engine only cost £230.