Pump timing on a 109

Put the timing back from where the previous owner had set it and its cut down on the white smoke at tickover but it seems more sluggish now and doesn,t idle as well.
Any ideas as if I put it back to where it was set it,ll be like a smoke machine once again

perdix said:

Put the timing back from where the previous owner had set it and its cut down on the white smoke at tickover but it seems more sluggish now and doesn,t idle as well.
Any ideas as if I put it back to where it was set it,ll be like a smoke machine once again

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Hi Perdix,

Now you need to "fine tune" the timing by advancing the injection a tiny bit at a time till it runs as it should.

My first guess would be to turn it a little more in the same direction as last time.

Remember, a small adjustement can make a big difference. especially as the timing gets close to the optimum. If it makes a diesel clatter when you blip the throttle you have advanced it a little too far.

Which exact model is it, and can you post a pic of the whole pump looking down from above?

Hi CharlesY.
Its a 1982 series 3 LWB.
I,ll get a pic up when its light again LOL.
Cheers

perdix said:

Hi CharlesY.
Its a 1982 series 3 LWB.
I,ll get a pic up when its light again LOL.
Cheers

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See if you can get a nice pic showing the injection pump clamp area and the marks there. Are you able to judge how far and in what direction you turned it so far?

Turned the pump about 2mm clockwise to send it back to the makers mark.
I,ll take a picture tomorrow mate

if its a s111 why dont you use the timing mark? its what its trere for after all

nongrokal said:

If it's a SIII why don't you use the timing mark? It's what it's there for after all

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The problems with that are these:

1. the maker's mark is a "one size fits all" mark to get every new engine running in the factory. No attempt is made to deal with each engine as an individual unless it runs so badly they don't dare send it out. That was very rare.

2. over the years, a certain amount of wear takes place in all the components between the crankshaft and the injection pump, including in this case the timing chain, and all that wear makes the pump timing happen LATE, as in retarded injection.

Almost always, such an engine can be "fine tuned" to run a lot sweeter than when set to standard marks, and invariably this means setting the pump timing a little advanced of the mark, enough to take up the wear and maybe a tiny bit more.

Coolio

Now which way is advance

perdix said:

Coolio

Now which way is advance

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Unless an expert JM says otherwise, try this.

Wipe the pump body clean, and look for an Arrow engraved on it.

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Using a mirror and a torch helps.

The arrow points in the direction that the INSIDES of the pump rotate.

So . . .
Turning the pump body in the direction the arrow points RETARDS the injection timing,

Turning the pump body AGAINST the direction the arrow points (like backwards) ADVANCES the injection timing.

Do it just a little at a time, and before you turn the pump you MUST slightly loosen the injector pipes (best at BOTH ends) because if you don't the ends may break off later. Do not end up putting strain on the injector pipes, and do make sure the correct pipe clamps are fitted in the right places. If they are missing or slack, cavitation can occur in the pipes and that makes for poor running.

Wipe something clean!!!!!!!On my 109!!!!!!!

Thanks for your help CharlesY.Mucho aprreciated

I will report back in a while

Still no pics cos the cameras battery was flat and I had to do the family thing today
But sat here tonight wondering if I,ve made the decision having a diesel and not a petrol SWB as most of my travelling is round town with an odd trip up the M1. and I could do with something a little nippier
Do ya reckon its worth slapping the old girl on e-bay once sorted and trying to get some interest in a swap for a SWB as they seem to be fetching better money than the LWBs?

perdix said:

Still no pics cos the cameras battery was flat and I had to do the family thing today
But sat here tonight wondering if I,ve made the decision having a diesel and not a petrol SWB as most of my travelling is round town with an odd trip up the M1. and I could do with something a little nippier
Do ya reckon its worth slapping the old girl on e-bay once sorted and trying to get some interest in a swap for a SWB as they seem to be fetching better money than the LWBs?

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Stick with the diesel!

It is an attitude of mind. The petrol ones give an impression of better progress, but in fact they are only a little easier to drive than the diesel.

Once you get used to the idea of the diesel and how to keep it going along with the traffic, you will get there just as soon, and use a whole lot less fuel doing it.

Apart from that, admit it, you love your Landy to bits!

Oh aye,I wouldn,t be without one mate.
3rd one I,ve owned and driven/done bits on a few more.
First 109 I,ve owned though and that might be the sticking point and something I need to get my head round
Last one was an 88" with overdrive,2.5 diesel motor,rebuilt box,galvanised chassis and a pick up too.Did **** loads on it and then let it go for stupid money cos I was broke
Lesson learned.
Will get a lightweight one day or a series 1 but this old girl more than fills the void for now

88 petrol is a better quieter drive ,cant hurt testing the water

Do it just a little at a time, and before you turn the pump you MUST slightly loosen the injector pipes (best at BOTH ends) because if you don't the ends may break off later. Do not end up putting strain on the injector pipes, and do make sure the correct pipe clamps are fitted in the right places. If they are missing or slack, cavitation can occur in the pipes and that makes for poor running.[/QUOTE]

Whats cavitation? Only asking as my 2.5na is not running as well as it used too and I am looking for ideas.

gipsybilly said:

Do it just a little at a time, and before you turn the pump you MUST slightly loosen the injector pipes (best at BOTH ends) because if you don't the ends may break off later. Do not end up putting strain on the injector pipes, and do make sure the correct pipe clamps are fitted in the right places. If they are missing or slack, cavitation can occur in the pipes and that makes for poor running.

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Whats cavitation? Only asking as my 2.5na is not running as well as it used too and I am looking for ideas.[/quote]


In some circumstances high frequency vibrations can set up in steel injector pipes and vibrate the fuel inside so much that it creates bubbles in the fuel, which spoils the injection pressures.

This would be very unusual, but it is possible, and is one of the two main reasons for the fitting of the clamps on the pipes.

The 2.5NA is a good engine. I have a nice one sitting on my garage floor if anyone wants to take it away. No starter motor, but otherwise a complete runner in good condition.

CharlesY said:

Whats cavitation? Only asking as my 2.5na is not running as well as it used too and I am looking for ideas.

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The 2.5NA is a good engine. I have a nice one sitting on my garage floor if anyone wants to take it away. No starter motor, but otherwise a complete runner in good condition.[/quote]


The 2.5NA engine often responds really well to fine tuning of the injection timing. There's a thread about this somewhere in LZ.

Also, get the injectors pressure tested and reset to the correct pressure.

I really like my 2.5. very tempted to have a spare. I will pm you if thats o.k.

gipsybilly said:

I really like my 2.5. very tempted to have a spare. I will pm you if thats o.k.

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Go ahead to try a PM.
It's been blocked for everyone else in case JM sends me another inane PM that I am tempted to post and get banned again.

no more inane in trying to reel someone in ,and then coming back as a troll