PTO take offs?

Hi All,

After a recent 200tdi conversion to my '59 SII, (keeping turbo and intercooler) I've found that I haven't enough gears??,
I've swapped to 235-80 tyres on LWB rims which have helped a bit, but it still feels like I'm driving everywhere in third gear?
I have a set of 3.54 diffs from an early Discovery, so was going to try one in the back to see how it goes? but am concerned that when towing the horse box I'm over geared, and spend all my time shifting up and down?
I've had a go in another 200tdi series II which had an overdrive fitted, the extra gear at the top seemed perfect for me, leaving me first gear "as is" on the 4.7 diffs?
(I'm in first gear when towing the horse box up our steep hill, hence I'm not sure about the 3.54 diffs??)
Ok you might say, "buy" an overdrive and shut up, but my problem is, I've a rear PTO fitted, which I use frequently?
I can (will?) just unbolt the overdrive and refit the PTO drive when needed, but it's a bit of a palaver?
I'm sure I've seen a modification where the transfer box "tin" bottom plate was replaced by a casting which housed another gear, which run on the bottom of one of the gears in the transfer case (if that makes sense?)
The thing I’d seen may have been something for a 101 winch? I'm not sure, as it was years ago, and I wasn't really interested in that sort of thing at that time?
So the question is.... "Does anybody know of such a thing for a series box?"
so I can have my rear PTO coming of the bottom of the transfer case and still have the overdrive bolted in the back
Too many bolt on goodies, and not enough holes to stick them in!
Any help gratefully appreciated
Ken.

ashcrofts do a fifth gear conversion for the series box

There certainly was a PTO that came out of the bottom of the Transfer Box, don't know where you'd find one though. Put 35 diffs in and learn to change from low to high.

Many thanks for you speedy replies,
I contacted Ashcroft's, they're out of stock on the conversion plates to allow the later 5 speed boxes to be fitted to the series transfer case, and recon they won't have any more in "this year"???
Regarding this conversion, I've read that the later boxes are much longer, and that there's not enough space left for the prop in a SWB? I can't move my engine and front panel forward because of the capstan winch, (wouldn't want to anyway, as it would spoil the look of the SII)
So unsure if this is an option, even if I could get the parts?
I think I'll try the 3.54 diff, (nothing to loose apart from some skin of my knuckles), and yes your right, if the going does get tough on uphill towing, I can always shift to low box?
Ken.

just dont use fwd if you only have the 3.5 diff in the rear! Something will go bang!

I've found it, this is what I'm after????
Any suggestions as to where best to place a "Wanted" ad?
Ken.

File too big to attach, so see link:-
http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/images/RTC7016.pdf

That is the part you need , but it is very difficult to fit bottom pto and o/d unit , Land Rover told me it was impossible. I proved them wrong. but it was a close run thing .
I was using bottom pto for driving hydraulics , what are you driving ?
try the 3.54 , if you fit one for test dont forget and shift into low as you will have 4wd with 4.7 at front and 3.5 at rear. If too high try putting on 205r16 tyres on rear with 3.54 diff in . see how that goes . HTSH

Tig9619 said:

just dont use fwd if you only have the 3.5 diff in the rear! Something will go bang!

Click to expand...

Good point, so my suggestion of using low range to pull away is a no-no!

Benz R'over said:

I've found it, this is what I'm after????
Any suggestions as to where best to place a "Wanted" ad?
Ken.

File too big to attach, so see link:-
http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/images/RTC7016.pdf

Click to expand...

Interesting read... but what on earth is 'backlash'.. and why do the two gears mentioned need it ???

In mechanical engineering, backlash, sometimes called lash or play, is clearance between mating components, sometimes described as the amount of lost motion due to clearance or slackness when movement is reversed and contact is re-established. For example, in a pair of gears, backlash is the amount of clearance between mated gear teeth. In other words it is the difference between the tooth space and the tooth thickness, as measured along the pitch circle. Theoretically, the backlash should be zero, but in actual practice some backlash must be allowed to prevent jamming of the teeth due to tooth errors and thermal expansion. This gap means that when a gear-train is reversed the driving gear must be turned a short distance before all the driven gears start to rotate.
Gear couplings use backlash to allow for angular misalignment.

Excellent explanation... thanks !

Distance between mating components is something I am all too familiar with - oh the backlash !!

Tacr2man, many thanks for the info, so bottom take off and an overdrive “IS” possible?? Did you have to make any serious modifications to get them both to fit?
I want to keep my rear mounted PTO, as it’s used to power a sawbench at the moment, (sometimes runs a water pump), however I’m in the middle of fitting a three point linkage so I can fit a 5’ grass topper, the topper’s designed for a “compact tractor”, so not very heavy, and should do fine on the back of the Land Rover?
Then on the other hand, we’re up and down the country towing a bl**dy horsebox, so I need the Land Rover to be good for road work?
Hence the dilemma
What I should do is buy an old tractor for working at home, but then life would be too easy, and I’d have nothing to worry about!
Anyway it’s not impossible for me just to unbolt the overdrive, change the gear and fit the PTO drive unit, for the few of times a year that it’d be needed, which is what I might end up doing, as I’ve just found one of these kits for sale on ‘tinternet , asking price, err..well, lets just say, I could buy a small tractor??

I was only going to fit the 3.54 rear diff and try it on the road, as I didn’t want all the hassle of doing the front only to find out the gearing was too tall?

Many thanks
Ken.

Good luck with the 3pt link conversion! I thought about that a few years ago but decided against it - especially as the back of a Landy is sprung whereas tractors aren't. I used my Landy to drive a 6ft topper, but chose an early Hayter one which was wheeled ... thus avoiding the 3pt linkage. You can see pics of mine with the topper attached in LRO, January 2009, P40. The only problem was reversing into corners! If you've only been driving static objects (pump, sawmill) you'll possibly have to get over the towing problem too ... standard drop-plate doesn't fit under the PTO gearbox.

Been towing with the PTO fitted for a few years now, you and I discussed this subject back in April 2005!!!
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f6/towing-rear-pto-fitted-22221.html
I’m only getting round to the three point linkage now?
I’ll try and attach a photo of my landy while undergoing some chassis/footwell work last year which shows the mounting plate and drop box with towball, the backplate is to give me good fixing points for the link arms, I’ve put in two big reinforcing arms in underneath which come from this backplate and fix up by the rear axle bump stops to stiffen the rear, and take the weight?
I’m going to try it "as is", but if I have trouble with the suspension on the back, I’ve not rulled out replacing the rear shockers with solid steel bars, to lock the suspension, just for tractor work?
I’ll let you know how I get on??
Kindest Regards

Ken.

Benz R'over said:

I've found it, this is what I'm after????
Any suggestions as to where best to place a "Wanted" ad?
Ken.

File too big to attach, so see link:-
http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/images/RTC7016.pdf

Click to expand...

shirly all you need is the high ratio tranny case gear set from ashcrofts ? - this gives an uplift of over 30% against the OD giving about 27%

it's just a new set of internal gears for the tranny box, the speedo will be as accurate as before, you wont have a slightly fragile OD to worry about AND you'll be able to fit your PTO

Hi Sean,
That was my first thought, but guess what..
The story from very helpful girl at Ashcroft’s was that the company who supplied them with some of the gears had gone "nipples skyward", well she didn't actually say "nipples skyward", but the point being, they were still looking for a new supplier of certain components, and didn't have anything in stock, so I'd to phone back later this year to see if they'd got anything sorted??
But summers coming, and I need a solution now?
Ken.

Benz R'over said:

Hi Sean,
That was my first thought, but guess what..
The story from very helpful girl at Ashcroft’s was that the company who supplied them with some of the gears had gone "nipples skyward", well she didn't actually say "nipples skyward", but the point being, they were still looking for a new supplier of certain components, and didn't have anything in stock, so I'd to phone back later this year to see if they'd got anything sorted??
But summers coming, and I need a solution now?
Ken.

Click to expand...

and yet, along with the LT77 conversion, they are still advertising them in all of the landy rags - how odd

Yes! I didn't recognise your userID - and cheers for the advice you gave back in '05! I ended up making something not too dissimilar from the pics you sent for my towbar.



I had a Landy a year or two ago with a 200TDi fitted, along with Range Rover 3.54 diffs (AND an overdrive!). It worked very well and didn't struggle at all.

On the subject of topping with your Landy ... I did this for about 3 years then gave up ... it's really hard work - especially as there's no 'Live Drive' to the PTO when you're pulling off - you end up trying to pull away from rest in long grass and start the blades all at the same time ... was putting a lot of stress on the transmission. In the end I sold the Landy and the PTO and bought a compact tractor (which I should have done in the first place!). The tractor has a live drive to the PTO so it's always turning when selected.

Your right, I should buy a compact tractor, but then, looking at your photo’s I started to dribble all over the keyboard!!!
We’re currently cutting 2.5 acres with a “Ken modified” Westwood 16hp “LAWN TRACTOR”!!!!!!!!! which is real fun...not! with the problem being, 2.5 acres, doesn’t quite justify a compact tractor?
So, after seeing yours, I’m now even more determined to continue with the Agri-Rover conversion?
My hope was that with the three point linkage I can easily raise and lower the topper, I’m currently fitting a 12 volt hydraulic pump from a lorry tail lift, under the rear floor, with a switch in the cab, and one on the back panel to raise and lower, I’m also wiring in some emergency stop buttons front and back, while she’s in the workshop, thought these were a sensible idea, especially with the sawbench??
I like yours, very tidy outfit, but what’s the little extension pieces between body and chassis? You seem to have raised the body a little?
I’ll post some good photo’s of mine when it makes it into service, for any other daft b*gger who might be interested?? as I had a few e-mails from the 2005 thread wanting info on PTO's and towbars?
Sadly, I don't seen to have any showing the landy coupled to the sawbench, but found this one, taken not for the water pump, more to show the truck cab rebuild if I remember?
Of course, to make life real easy, I should buy a VW Lupo and eat the horses!!
Ken.

Benz R'over said:

with the problem being, 2.5 acres, doesn’t quite justify a compact tractor?

Click to expand...

2.5 acres sounds more than enough to justify a compact ... We've only got just under 4 acres here and I've managed to justify (honest!) 3 Landies, a compact tractor and a full size Hymac excavator!

Those little extension pieces were to line up the bodywork ... I fully rebuilt the Landy and couldn't get the bodywork to line up at all ... eventually managed it but only by jacking up the back of the back body slightly.

The Hayter is available for a few quid if you can't face the 3-pt link. I don't use it any more.