Power issues

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Paul Coddington

Paul Coddington

Active Member
Posts
154
Location
Derbyshire
Hello All.
Once again a pointer in the right direction is needed. So this 2.5 DT manual gearbox pain in the backside is giving me grief. It s current problem is that it's being completely gutless on hills apart from the odd occasion when it suddenly remembers how it used to perform.
I've checked and replaced the tubing for the MAP sensor, the fuel filter and tried another MAF sensor all to no avail.
A visual inspection shows that there's intermittent air bubbles in the clear pipe from the filter, so I'm going to remove and it just to check the seals. My other thought is that it's dragging air in on the fuel pump.
The lack of power on hills and the fact that it's pretty much ok on the level roads makes me think that the pump is on the way out, (I've found the post from wammers in the tech archive and will go through the tests).
My immediate question is if I unplug the MAF and drive it round the same hills it's way better, wouldn't a dodgy fuel pump give the same symptoms, wether or not the MAF was connected.
Ta muchly
 
Paul Coddington said:
Hello All.
Once again a pointer in the right direction is needed. So this 2.5 DT manual gearbox pain in the backside is giving me grief. It s current problem is that it's being completely gutless on hills apart from the odd occasion when it suddenly remembers how it used to perform.
I've checked and replaced the tubing for the MAP sensor, the fuel filter and tried another MAF sensor all to no avail.
A visual inspection shows that there's intermittent air bubbles in the clear pipe from the filter, so I'm going to remove and it just to check the seals. My other thought is that it's dragging air in on the fuel pump.
The lack of power on hills and the fact that it's pretty much ok on the level roads makes me think that the pump is on the way out, (I've found the post from wammers in the tech archive and will go through the tests).
My immediate question is if I unplug the MAF and drive it round the same hills it's way better, wouldn't a dodgy fuel pump give the same symptoms, wether or not the MAF was connected.
Ta muchly
Click to expand...
I would expect a dodgy in tank pump to give the same symptoms with or without the MAF but you never know. How full is the tank? Filling it up would help to eliminate the in tank pump. I have had the same symptoms with a duff pump and half a tank of fuel.
Really needs diagnostics with which you could check the MAP sensor and possibly the MAF.
 
Update. So eventually got round to checking the turbo, and the actuator is seized, I can't get it to move inwards at all. So having decided that this is probably the issue I would ask, is it best to just change the entire turbo or would it be worth try a replacement actuator first.
Thanks
 
Paul Coddington said:
Update. So eventually got round to checking the turbo, and the actuator is seized, I can't get it to move inwards at all. So having decided that this is probably the issue I would ask, is it best to just change the entire turbo or would it be worth try a replacement actuator first.
Thanks
Click to expand...
If it's the actual mechanism that has seized, it can be freed off.
 
I have had a bar on it, to no avail. I can get it to move slightly away from the unit but it springs back. I've had no success moving it towards the actuator body. Any handy methods of freeing it off. Or is it a case of removing it and trying that way.
 
Paul Coddington said:
I have had a bar on it, to no avail. I can get it to move slightly away from the unit but it springs back. I've had no success moving it towards the actuator body. Any handy methods of freeing it off. Or is it a case of removing it and trying that way.
Click to expand...
I did it on what turned out to be a scrap turbo on the bench, brake cleaner or Acetone. I still have the turbo I can do photo's if it would help.
 
Datatek said:
I did it on what turned out to be a scrap turbo on the bench, brake cleaner or Acetone. I still have the turbo I can do photo's if it would help.
Click to expand...
Yes definitely interested in photos and a DIY guide. it's got to come off anyway, new turbo's are a ridiculous price, Currently trying to source a recon which is proving difficult. So any chance of resurrecting this one is definitely the way forward.
Thanks
 
Paul Coddington said:
Yes definitely interested in photos and a DIY guide. it's got to come off anyway, new turbo's are a ridiculous price, Currently trying to source a recon which is proving difficult. So any chance of resurrecting this one is definitely the way forward.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Very sorry, it seems that the exhaust side of the turbo with the waste gate has gone missing so no photo's, probably went in the scrap iron bag. The actual waste gate is quite simple when disconnected from the actuator.
 
Datatek said:
Very sorry, it seems that the exhaust side of the turbo with the waste gate has gone missing so no photo's, probably went in the scrap iron bag. The actual waste gate is quite simple when disconnected from the actuator.
Click to expand...
Datatek said:
Very sorry, it seems that the exhaust side of the turbo with the waste gate has gone missing so no photo's, probably went in the scrap iron bag. The actual waste gate is quite simple when disconnected from the actuator.
Click to expand...
No problems, thanks for the pointers. The existing one has got to be taken off so I'll give it a look over and see what I can do.
Assistance very much appreciated.
Best Regards
Paul
 
So everyday is a school day, I've removed the turbo and exhaust manifold today, and having looked at it and the actuator I realised that I've got this issue wrong.
I was given to understand that the actuator is operated by a vacuum and pulls the rod to open the waste gate. But that's not the case.
Can any of you clever people tell me when would the actuator begin to work. I was told that movement should be seen as soon as the engine is revved, mine didn't move despite the revs.
I would assume that the turbo generated the pressure from the get go.
I'm trying to get an idea of I should replace this turbo or not.
As a further bit of info the actuator does push but it requires a deal of force, I used of a small pry bar.
 
Paul Coddington said:
So everyday is a school day, I've removed the turbo and exhaust manifold today, and having looked at it and the actuator I realised that I've got this issue wrong.
I was given to understand that the actuator is operated by a vacuum and pulls the rod to open the waste gate. But that's not the case.
Can any of you clever people tell me when would the actuator begin to work. I was told that movement should be seen as soon as the engine is revved, mine didn't move despite the revs.
I would assume that the turbo generated the pressure from the get go.
I'm trying to get an idea of I should replace this turbo or not.
As a further bit of info the actuator does push but it requires a deal of force, I used of a small pry bar.
Click to expand...
The waste gate or "bypass" as it's called in RAVE is pneumatically operated by turbo output pressure, in one place RAVE states it's vacuum operated, in another it implies pressure operated. Ether way, the vacuum unit is bolted to the turbo with a rubber pipe from the turbo outlet.
 
So everyday is a school day, I've removed the turbo and exhaust manifold today, and having looked at it and the actuator I realised that I've got this issue wrong.
I was given to understand that the actuator is operated by a vacuum and pulls the rod to open the waste gate. But that's not the case.
Can any of you clever people tell me when would the actuator begin to work. I was told that movement should be seen as soon as the engine is revved, mine didn't move despite the revs.
I would assume that the turbo generated the pressure from the get go.
I'm trying to get an idea of I should replace this turbo or not.
As a further bit of info the actuator does push but it requires a deal of force, I used of a small pry bar.
Datatek said:
The waste gate or "bypass" as it's called in RAVE is pneumatically operated by turbo output pressure, in one place RAVE states it's vacuum operated, in another it implies pressure operated. Ether way, the vacuum unit is bolted to the turbo with a rubber pipe from the turbo outlet.
Click to expand...
Does Rave state when the waste gate should start to open, presumably at a certain rpm, or give a test to determine if the unit is working correctly. I suppose I should stop being lazy an go get my laptop
 
The waste gate opens to stop the turbo putting to much boost out i believe they run at 11psi it dose not work on a set revs it works on pressure in the intake set up so is load and throttle sensitive, ie if you suddenly lift the throttle having been on full chat it will let some of the exhaust gasses bypass the turbo there for creating less boost.
it should move quite freely .
 
Thanks for that Brian, that's very useful. This actuator is quite heavy, it needs some leverage to get it to operate the wastegate. Given that the psi requirements aren't great, it probably isn't working correctly in use. Do you know how it would affect the whole issue of performance. Essentially I'm wondering if the whole lack of power is down to this turbo, or if I'm completely barking up the wrong tree.
 
Paul Coddington said:
Thanks for that Brian, that's very useful. This actuator is quite heavy, it needs some leverage to get it to operate the wastegate. Given that the psi requirements aren't great, it probably isn't working correctly in use. Do you know how it would affect the whole issue of performance. Essentially I'm wondering if the whole lack of power is down to this turbo, or if I'm completely barking up the wrong tree.
Click to expand...
If the waste gate is stuck partially open it will certainly affect power. I doubt you need to replace the turbo, just find out if it's the actuator or the waste gate that is sticking. If it's the waste gate it can be freed off, if it's the actuator it may need replacing.
 
You should be able to unbolt the actuator vacuum body of the turbo with it still attached the the waste gate arm then you will be able to see which bit is the restriction unfortunately its probably a turbo off job but then its easier to work on .
 
1755012638144.png

1755012950572.png

Two mounting bolts for the actuator marked.
 
Thanks for the pointer. I've been out and picked up another used turbo, not got hands on with, but it won't be long I had a quote via a mate in the motor trade for a recon unit, but it doesn't include the actuator because they are no longer available. A new turbo is over £1000 so a used one makes sense. Awaiting a set of new gaskets, and we'll see if this animal will play nicely. I'll let you know.
 
Paul Coddington said:
Thanks for the pointer. I've been out and picked up another used turbo, not got hands on with, but it won't be long I had a quote via a mate in the motor trade for a recon unit, but it doesn't include the actuator because they are no longer available. A new turbo is over £1000 so a used one makes sense. Awaiting a set of new gaskets, and we'll see if this animal will play nicely. I'll let you know.
Click to expand...
Putting in a used turbo to replace a turbo that may not be faulty does not seem like a good idea to me.
 
Paul Coddington said:
So everyday is a school day, I've removed the turbo and exhaust manifold today, and having looked at it and the actuator I realised that I've got this issue wrong.
I was given to understand that the actuator is operated by a vacuum and pulls the rod to open the waste gate. But that's not the case.
Can any of you clever people tell me when would the actuator begin to work. I was told that movement should be seen as soon as the engine is revved, mine didn't move despite the revs.
I would assume that the turbo generated the pressure from the get go.
I'm trying to get an idea of I should replace this turbo or not.
As a further bit of info the actuator does push but it requires a deal of force, I used of a small pry bar.
Click to expand...

Should kick in around 1750 rpm.
 
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