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Petrol 2001 intermittent running rough on startup and intermittent misfire mystery

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by Looey, Jan 17, 2012.

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  1. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Burning it is not an option, I would like to find out what is going on and fix it :D If I can't fix it I am sure my wife will burn it with me in it!!!:eek:

    Several times over the past few weeks, when starting up it appears to run rough and possible on 3 pots only. It will do this when hot or cold without giving any indication when switching off ingnition prevoiusly. Sometimes it will clear itself after a minute or so, another time it won't and I have to switch off. I wait about a minute, start up again and it may start normally or may start running rough again. I leave it overnight, cos I am getting really ****ed at it now and may do something to it with a big hammer and regret it later!

    Having left it overnight, I come out and the bloody thing starts and runs normally! :confused: I have had the 3 amigos, and replaced the brake light switch and new short harness. I still get intermittent 3 amigos, but they are not on when the engine is running rough. It has been to my LR indy guys, and does not show any faults on testbook, in fact the bloody thing behaves so well, just like taking a child to the doctors :mad: I have checked through the forums but can't seem to shed light on my particular problem. I am starting to think it is a sensor fault or faults rather than a mechanical problem. I don't want to go back to workshop without some possible ideas of what may need replacing, to try and keep the costs down.

    Anybody fixed something similar? Any help and thoughts would be very much appreciated. :)
     
  2. Freelaner

    Freelaner Landy Driver

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    Check your ht leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm.
    Coil packs or coil depending on your engine.
    Then check all earths/connections.
     
  3. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Yep, will do, coil packs on mine, I may just replace them as a matter of course, they have done nearly 89000. At least it rules that out or fixes it for not too much money. Been through as many earth points I can find, checked harness for chaffing through. :)
     
  4. Freelaner

    Freelaner Landy Driver

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    Good luck hope the change does it good :)
     
  5. Mantamad

    Mantamad New Member

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    Coil pack was my first thought so worth checking/replacing.

    Worth also checking your idle air control valve (IACV) in case its sticking open sometimes and making the engine run rough when warm
     
  6. fanatic

    fanatic RESPECT IS EARNED, BEATINGS ARE FREE ;-) LZIR Despatch Agent

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    pull the plugs and if one is rusty or different it is HGF or loose liners with a k series

    Other than that what the others say
     
  7. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Update. Coils & leads tested ok, plugs all nice sandy brown, engine & oil in good condition. No problem with new HG, new bolts, oil ladder, uprated & modified head fitted 1500 miles ago. Liners not moving or slipped, did acoustic test, no chattering sounds as expected with a slipped liner. New stepping control motor fitted about 4000 miles ago, tested ok. It is possible the MAP sensor has an intermittent fault causing the occasional startup misfire/3 pot running. It tested ok but will replace to be sure. The other problem with 3 amigos appearing, could be the ABS ECU accelerometer (C1220) faulty, located by the handbrake adjuster, these little sods are known to LR as a regular failure item on 2001 and earlier vehicles. As an outside chance the brake fluid level sensor could be giving intermittent fault readings.

    I have discovered a previous somebody has used a cable tie to hold the connector on to the switch because the switch is cracked and a squirt of silicone had been aplied to keep moisture out.. Now that sensor is connected up to the ABS circuit, and could be giving a false sensor reading, without sensing a fault in the brake circuit, thus not lighting up the red brake circuit failure warning lamp, only the ABS circuit side causing the 3 amigos. Guess I have to get another sensor. But will do one at a time to see if I can pinpoint what cures it and perhaps help other peeps with the same problem. I seem to recall another member cured his 3 amigoes by fixing the brake fluid sensor.
     
  8. KalamaZoolander

    KalamaZoolander New Member

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    Mine is doing something similar... It is a 2002 v6 HSE... First thing in the morning it starts right up and runs very well... then after stopping for a bit at the store or wherever, it cranks over several times before starting back up!... It always starts again, but may take a few tries... It cranks fine, but doesn't hit or try to start, but 2-3 times in 4-5 seconds of cranking.... then I stop, try another time or two, and it starts like nothing was ever wrong at all!... It does not do this every time, just sort of random... I bought this 3 weeks ago, and still trying to sort it all out!!!
     
  9. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    I am beginning to think Freelanders were designed to be the fault test bed, and drive us all mad. Looks like you have some head scratching to do as well. Let us know when you fix the fault.
     
  10. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Dam thing wouldn't run properly when i started it today, switched off last night running fine. It seemed to struggle to turn over, then run on two pots. Switched off and on a few times, very rough, shook the thing sideways, then it started and ran lumpy for a few seconds, before running nice and smooth.

    I am beginning to think it may be the fuel pump/filter causing the problem, not a sensor. Not able to access the ECU yesterday when i took it to my usual LR indy, they were puzzled as well?

    It has to go in in a week or so for them to service and sort it. Would have been nice to know what the problem was beforehand though!:mad:
     
  11. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Had a good think and look around this site again, after going over the engine to check for signs of leaking. Inlet manifold gasket was changed back in the summer, when I had all the coolant pipes replaced. The misfiring/rough running on startup, on occasion combined with an annoying slow coolant loss, seems to point to inlet manifold gasket failure.

    Got no option, it is booked into LR main dealer for full diagnostic next week. It seems worth shelling out dosh this once for a proper testbook diagnostic. LR indy diagnostic tester, was unable to make contact with ECU this week. They also did all the work, and the symptoms have only started since thi work was done. So I am starting to wonder.... They will also check out why I still have intermittent 3 amigos. Will update when I know more.
     
  12. freelander dnt u love em

    freelander dnt u love em New Member

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    I have the same problem mine always starts having a rev attack at trafic lights never any other time I am at a loss has to why
     
  13. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Hi Fdule,

    Do you mean it drops revs, or goes mad overrevving? Is it a 1.8, if so could be throttle position sensor fault.

    Or it has an as yet undiagnosed Freelander fault of obsesssive traffic light behaviour disorder :D

    Just on my way to collect repaired Freelander now, faults resolved, will update later.:D:D:D:D
     
  14. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Result!!! Good :D and bad :mad: sorry for a long post

    Main LR dealer, Harwoods of Tombridge fixed the problems. Diagnostic revealed an armful of fault codes going back some time, faults cleared and MEMS 3 software/firmware updated. New brake switch/short harness I fitted before Christmas was faulty, had to be replaced again. will send back my purchase and get my money back. NO MORE 3 AMIGOS.

    My usual indy LR guys had said there were no fault codes and never mentioned there were software updates avaliable, they did not pick up that the new brake switch or harness was faulty. :mad:

    The missfire was due to no 2 cyl plug breaking down. It took them a week to get the plug out as it appeared to be seized into the head. Turns out the plugs (can't remember the make but expensive non LR reccomended aftermarket flavour) had ally washers fitted, as well as the usual steel sparkplug washer. No 2 plug ally washer had fused to the head that's why it took them nearly a week to get it out, they were not sure if it had been cross threaded and tried daily squirts of easing oil and wrenching to try and get it out without causing further possible damage. Yesterday was crunch day and the time taken paid off. They got the plug out, and discovered the fused to head plug washer. No damage to the plug threads. Plug was white and clearly had been breaking down causing missfire. Other 3 plugs were nice and brown, the duff plug had not been removed for some considerable time, possible a couple of years. 4 new plugs now fitted.

    My usual indy LR guys had said all plugs were fine. Simply not true, they did not remove that particular plug and they did not tell me they were unable to remove it :mad: How did my head get skimmed back in 2010 when HGF happened.

    Small coolant loss unable to explain, not in oil, no hydrocarbons in coolant tank, no external leaks. maybe this freeby likes to run with coolant level nearer min mark than max mark now. Some faint crazing starting to appear at top of 2 yr old coolant tank, will keep an eye on it.

    A week at the main dealer, new parts, over 30 miles in road tests, over 10 hrs actual work on the vehicle, including diagnostic, software updates, fault clearance, testing for 3 amigos to try and replicate fault, check the new plugs are ok, engine running smooth etc, well all of the above, for a total cost of £210. Money well spent, and a good lower rate for older vehicles. Thank you Harwoods of Tonbridge, "I'll be back" :D:D:D

    As for my indy LR guys, I will not be going back to them for work and will be "chatting" to the main man next week, I was right to think not all was well, that they had been taking my money and not being honest with me. I will ask them to explain the findings above. I will see if they would like to contribute to the sucsessful repairs. I am really really ****ed off, I don't usually get taken for a mug and folks who know me, know that is not a good thing :mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
  15. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    Glad I got that off me chest :)
     
  16. Freelaner

    Freelaner Landy Driver

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    Thanks for sharing Looey.:)

    Glad you got it sorted in the end and at a main stealer, fancy that
     
  17. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    Me thinks you need to ask them if they actually have diagnostic equipement for a Freelander 1. They may only have an obdii p code (error code) reader. Not nice of them to rob you of money. Few independents would be aware of software updates. Most would expect them to all have been done within the first 3 years from new.
     
  18. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    I also forgot to mention, Dealer also reccomended using a good injector cleaner in the fuel, as I am using supermarket fuel. My Freebie has done 89 odd thousand and no 2 injector in particular has varnish build up, causing a less than perfect spray pattern and weaker mixture. They are pretty sure this was the cause of the sparkplug failure and misfire. It will save some money for at least another couple of years before eventually needing new injectors. Off to Halfauds in the morning.
     
  19. Freelaner

    Freelaner Landy Driver

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    I stick some Redex in every 5 or 6 fill ups any way, I usually fill up at theSupermarket but not entirely convinced it's different to station fuel.
     
  20. Looey

    Looey New Member

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    I'm with you there Hoyt, I imagine there is minimal difference, as long as the octane rating is the same.

    I have put some Wynns injector cleaner in this morning and will do it for the next couple of tankfuls, then go to once every couple of months. It seemed to idle smoother after a 40 mile run. See if I can get another year or so out of the injectors before relacement becomes a reality.

    I think your right Hippo, regarding indy test equipment, I only saw a fault code reader, two actually, when I took it in to them with the 3 amigos showing. Neither of them could access the MEMS, that's when I became suspicious and booked it into Harwoods, and here we are, fixed for now! I am sure it will bite me again.:)
     
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