Permanent engine rattle!

kgeddes · Mar 17, 2015

The L322 woes continue!

2002 4.4 with lpg conversion, showing 98,000 miles.

Started the V8 the other morning and noticed a horrible rattling noise! After a few seconds when the revs reduced it sounded like a diesel engine at idle!

I've had some erratic idling recently.

I am now left with this situation and the rattle doesn't go away.

I had a V8 specialist take a quick listen and he recons it's the timing chain slapping against the guides.

I initially thought I'd was the VANOS as my HawkEye reader is showing a VANOS fault on Bank 1.

Two questions please:

1. Is it likely to be the timing chain/guides?
2. If it's the timing chain is it 'safe' to drive it to a LR specialist. 50 miles away for repair? Obviously the big worry is the chain snapping!

As always any help greatly appreciated. Thanks.

bitnix · Mar 17, 2015

People drive lots of cars where the chain has either stretched or the issue sometimes is with the actual tensioner. I used to have a V6 Audi and the tensioner was operated by the oil pressure wasn't extending fully to push the guide to keep the chain at the optimum length. Frankly I myself drove that car for almost 2 years with that fault. There was an impact of the performance and fuel economy but nothing else happened. This is a common thing in some Nissans or even Vauxhall Corsa's. I doubt it will snap although don't hold me responsible. What you can do is try to call some roadside assistance company pay some silly membership fee and get it towed or on a trailer.

The beauty of the V engine will be that you can actually compare the other side which is faultless to see how things should look like.

Sorry for a very provisional answer and good luck!

Regards,

Jake

Saint.V8 · Mar 17, 2015

The original guides on the M62 engine were made of plastic and do wear out causing chain slap.

There is also a little hydraulic tensioner that can fail and reduce tension on the guides as mentioned in the post above.

A loose chain can cause VANOS timing issues.

As for driving it, you'll probably be safe to do so, but don't leave it to slap about as the guides have been known to break up and cause misery!

RRkev · Mar 17, 2015

looking at various bmw sites most claim to get to around 180,000 to 200,000 before the guides break and fail, but tensioners should be replaced around 100k, my advice would be give the girl an oil change get something in there like 5w40 fully synthetic and change the tensioner. i had occasional start up rattle on mine when cold and a constant rattle when idling at warm, changing the tensioner has stopped the start up rattle. the slight rattle when warm at tickover is the vanos unit it dissapears as soon as the revs rise.

holidaychicken · Mar 17, 2015

Saint.V8 said:
The original guides on the M62 engine were made of plastic and do wear out causing chain slap.

There is also a little hydraulic tensioner that can fail and reduce tension on the guides as mentioned in the post above.

A loose chain can cause VANOS timing issues.

As for driving it, you'll probably be safe to do so, but don't leave it to slap about as the guides have been known to break up and cause misery!

hi Ant, is the hydraulic tensioner you mention the one circled in red or blue on the attached pics?

When i did my cam covers recently i noticed the chain behind the main chain that the tensioner circled in red tensions was loose and i could lift up and down. Is that normal ?

OP, my concern would be that if the rattle is very bad and as Saint mentioned, if the guides had broken up, you can tell by removing the sump as they will be in there, the chain is more likely to jump a tooth than break if they are really loose. i am not sure mileage is a direct indicator for potential failed guides, more likely down to how the engine has been looked after, especially if it has been overheated. Am i correct in saying LPG makes the engine run hotter ?

kgeddes · Mar 19, 2015

Thanks for the replies.

It's away today on an AA Relay truck...didn't want to risk it!

GEMM 4 X 4 will assess what's required.

Will update the thread when I know.

Away to smash up the piggy bank (again)

holidaychicken · Mar 19, 2015

Good luck, i have just spent another £400 and a good few days to do half my front cv joints and suspension parts, I know it's saving me money but i do envy you being able to ship it off to be sorted. The thing has fought me the whole way, down to the last clip, nut bolt, rubber thing, caliper everything

Keep the faith

kgeddes · Mar 19, 2015

Thanks holidaychicken, I honestly wish I had kept my Overfinch P38 now, had it for nearly three years and apart from one nasty bill it was very reliable and a real pleasure to own!
The L322 is definitely better to drive but the bills are proving to be too much...real shame!
I will update the thread when I have more info....

holidaychicken · Mar 19, 2015

I wouldn't have kept mine i don't think if it hadn't been for the guys on this forum.

I have spent a small fortune in the 18 months i have had mine but without doing the work myself or with friends, the bills would have far outweighed the value of the car very quickly and my budget.

Even when my problem has been unique, just having somebody to bounce ideas off has pulled me through many times.

Anyway, report back as you say when you know more, we can tell you what spanners to buy if nothing else
Good luck
Andy

2.0_hippo · Mar 19, 2015

there are good and bad cars of all makes and models....

just depends how lucky you are ! lol

holidaychicken · Mar 19, 2015

I knew I was in for a bumpy ride when i got mine home after buying it and the front suspension collapsed so i couldn't drive it, and then the immobiliser lost its link which apparently only happens on the P38 and i couldn't do a thing until my All Comms turned up after a month in customs which could only tell me the fault and not fix it which meant paying for a trailer to take it to a main dealer for reprogramming and then and then and then.................................

it's the vanos next i can feel it in my bones, which incidentally are aching after laying under the fecker for 2 days!!

i think i still love it though

Datatek · Mar 20, 2015

2.0_hippo said:
there are good and bad cars of all makes and models....

just depends how lucky you are ! lol

Say's the man who has just forked out for a gearbox

2.0_hippo · Mar 20, 2015

Datatek said:
Say's the man who has just forked out for a gearbox

It's part of the servicing

Datatek · Mar 21, 2015

2.0_hippo said:
It's part of the servicing on an L322, replace gearbox & torque convertor every 2 years or 80K miles

Edited for accuracy

kgeddes · Jun 4, 2015

Quick update.....turned out to be timing chain guide/s breaking up and noisy Vanos units.

Has now been with GEMM 4X4, Larbert for nearly ELEVEN weeks!

New chains, guides etc. fitted and both Vanos units sent for ultra-sonic cleaning. Running perfectly now. Asked them to renew MOT.....still awaiting call to say it's ready!

Anticipating a bill for around £2500.....nightmare!!!

Saint.V8 · Jun 4, 2015

Saint.V8 said:
The original guides on the M62 engine were made of plastic and do wear out causing chain slap.

There is also a little hydraulic tensioner that can fail and reduce tension on the guides as mentioned in the post above.

A loose chain can cause VANOS timing issues.

As for driving it, you'll probably be safe to do so, but don't leave it to slap about as the guides have been known to break up and cause misery!

kgeddes said:
Quick update.....turned out to be timing chain guide/s breaking up and noisy Vanos units.

Has now been with GEMM 4X4, Larbert for nearly ELEVEN weeks!

New chains, guides etc. fitted and both Vanos units sent for ultra-sonic cleaning. Running perfectly now. Asked them to renew MOT.....still awaiting call to say it's ready!

Anticipating a bill for around £2500.....nightmare!!!

Sorry to hear that!

At least you found the fault...

kgeddes · Jun 4, 2015

Thanks Saint.V8, the car has been a bloody nightmare...over the last nine months it has needed new radiator, new alternator, major gearbox service now all this...has really put me off Range Rovers, my last seven vehicles have all been P38s, diesel and LPG engines which I have really enjoyed and have all been reasonable in terms of maintenance/repair costs...this thing is just too expensive to keep going so probably going to sell before it needs more money thrown at it! Real pity because it's the best vehicle I have ever owned from a driving perspective

Ps. What's your thoughts about 11 weeks to repair and MOT?

Saint.V8 · Jun 4, 2015

11 weeks is excessive....for a garage especially.

If you are a competent DIY spanner-jockey, I would say a week or 10 days if you are being careful and meticulous and had all the parts you require and the correct timing tools....

11 weeks for a garage, they either have no clue what they are doing, are waiting on parts, or are taking the rise!

tomcat59alan · Jun 4, 2015

Datatek said:
Edited for accuracy

Well they are expensive sheds.

holidaychicken · Jun 4, 2015

The link below will give you an idea of what's involved in the vanos units, which explains why they fail and what you need to do to replace the seals. i would be very concerned to have done all that and they didnt replace the seals.

If it was just the guides and tensioners and the vanos units are fine then you could be ok but as far as future proofing, that would be anybodies guess.

The timing chain guides are very little extra work from the procedure shown.

i think if i was doing this job myself i would allow a week if i had all the parts prepared.

Permanent engine rattle!

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