parallel/reserve LPG tanks

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S

Steve

Guest
Our 101 is running exclusively on LPG now, a. we can't afford petrol,
and b. The tank has a hole in it.

I have been given an almost new 80 litre tank that I would like to put
in the fuel system.

How best to do it ? As an independent tank, switched in with a
changeover valve when the main tank runs empty, or in parallelwith the
main, and no valve, which AFAIK means that the LPG level in the main
tank would be enough to gauge the whole system.

Thanks

Steve
 
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:22:02 +0000, Steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>How best to do it ? As an independent tank, switched in with a
>changeover valve when the main tank runs empty, or in parallelwith the
>main, and no valve, which AFAIK means that the LPG level in the main
>tank would be enough to gauge the whole system.

uk.rec.cars.lpg is a good place to ask...

Are you using that tank I gave you?

If it becomes spare, I've an idea for an outside BBQ that may make for
a suitable deployment of it - all built, literally, into a GS :)


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:00:47 +0000, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

uk.rec.cars.fuel.lpg


 
On or around Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:22:02 +0000, Steve
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Our 101 is running exclusively on LPG now, a. we can't afford petrol,
>and b. The tank has a hole in it.
>
>I have been given an almost new 80 litre tank that I would like to put
>in the fuel system.
>
>How best to do it ? As an independent tank, switched in with a
>changeover valve when the main tank runs empty, or in parallelwith the
>main, and no valve, which AFAIK means that the LPG level in the main
>tank would be enough to gauge the whole system.

If you have 2 tanks live at the same time, you need nonreturn valves on the
outlets. If you wire it with a changeover switch, then you just need a T
piece, since one tank can't feed the other, as the valves are never open
simultaneously. Useful in some ways, as you then have a reserve tank. Wire
to a separate gauge, and you can either fit a second filler of T the filler
pipes.

You need the non-return valves in the tank outlets if running 2 tanks as
one, otherwise, if one tank gets hihger than the other with the system live,
the liquid level in the lower tank can get too high.

fillers are no problem provided both tanks have correct 80% shutoffs.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:22:02 +0000, Steve
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> Our 101 is running exclusively on LPG now, a. we can't afford petrol,
>> and b. The tank has a hole in it.
>>
>> I have been given an almost new 80 litre tank that I would like to put
>> in the fuel system.
>>
>> How best to do it ? As an independent tank, switched in with a
>> changeover valve when the main tank runs empty, or in parallelwith the
>> main, and no valve, which AFAIK means that the LPG level in the main
>> tank would be enough to gauge the whole system.
>
> If you have 2 tanks live at the same time, you need nonreturn valves on the
> outlets. If you wire it with a changeover switch, then you just need a T
> piece, since one tank can't feed the other, as the valves are never open
> simultaneously. Useful in some ways, as you then have a reserve tank. Wire
> to a separate gauge, and you can either fit a second filler of T the filler
> pipes.

I think I am beginning to like the "reserve tank" setup. Can I get a
solenoid changeover valve rated for LPG ?

Steve
 
Mother wrote:

> If it becomes spare, I've an idea for an outside BBQ that may make for
> a suitable deployment of it - all built, literally, into a GS :)
>
>

It looks like it might be spare, Paul Devlin gave me a big 'un, when he
couldn't tune his own LPG rig up. Not enough plastic pan scrubs, but he
thinks I'm taking the ****.

We'll drop it back to you if you want, unless you have some hardware you
need building into which to plumb the tank and burners.

Steve
 
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:19:19 +0000, Steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>We'll drop it back to you if you want, unless you have some hardware you
>need building into which to plumb the tank and burners.

You've conveniently pre-empted me asking!

I've ideas of a couple of runners - more to follow - with drawings ;-)


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 
Mother wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:19:19 +0000, Steve
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> We'll drop it back to you if you want, unless you have some hardware you
>> need building into which to plumb the tank and burners.
>
> You've conveniently pre-empted me asking!
>
> I've ideas of a couple of runners - more to follow - with drawings ;-)
>
>
Its a 'kin brilliant idea. Why ?

Steve
 
Steve wrote:

> I think I am beginning to like the "reserve tank" setup. Can I get a
> solenoid changeover valve rated for LPG ?

It's easiest to use a pair of ordinary LPG shutoff solenoids, controlled
from a changeover switch.


--
EMB
 

"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve wrote:
>
> > I think I am beginning to like the "reserve tank" setup. Can I get a
> > solenoid changeover valve rated for LPG ?
>
> It's easiest to use a pair of ordinary LPG shutoff solenoids, controlled
> from a changeover switch.
>

yeah, that was going to be my point. current lpg tanks have a solenoid valve
on the tank, so as long as both tanks have one, with a simple 2 position
switch you can control which one is open, allowing only one to be open at
any particular time. so no need for a changeover valve. you can then either
have two tank gauges, or do a little more wiring with relays etc. so the one
gauge will tell you the level on whichever tank is currently being used.

Sam.


 
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:10:06 +1300, EMB wrote:

> It's easiest to use a pair of ordinary LPG shutoff solenoids,
> controlled from a changeover switch.

Probably a silly question but any reason why an automatic changeover
valve couldn't be used? Like those between pairs of 47Kg propane
cylinders used for cooking etc.
--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:38:48 +0000, Steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I've ideas of a couple of runners - more to follow - with drawings ;-)
>>
>Its a 'kin brilliant idea. Why ?

I've had an idea bubbling around the back of mi head for a few years
around doing a charity catering setup. The grub on sale at most shows
and events is pretty dire - I reckoned on building a complete catering
unit into a Sankey - then thought about building it into the back of a
GS - sort of novelty - but with decent, locally sourced food.

I reckon it could be a pretty good fundraiser if done right.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 
In message <[email protected]>
Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:38:48 +0000, Steve
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I've ideas of a couple of runners - more to follow - with drawings ;-)
> >>
> >Its a 'kin brilliant idea. Why ?
>
> I've had an idea bubbling around the back of mi head for a few years
> around doing a charity catering setup. The grub on sale at most shows
> and events is pretty dire - I reckoned on building a complete catering
> unit into a Sankey - then thought about building it into the back of a
> GS - sort of novelty - but with decent, locally sourced food.
>
> I reckon it could be a pretty good fundraiser if done right.
>
>

Dangerous Brian tried this a few years back, using a converted Sankey,
and was immediately surrounded by traders demanding the verious
health certificates etc. Don't forget they pay a huge anount for their
pitches at shows and quite rightly want to protect their interests, quite
forcibly sometimes. Often one company or individual will buy the rights
for the whole site and sub it out as they see fit (I have a mate who's
brother is a "scran can" operator and does shows etc).
Having said that, if you were doing "specialist" food then the organisers
would be able to tell them in advance and perhaps placate any objections
as you'd not be in direct competition.

Just my 2p's worth,

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:16:01 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dangerous Brian tried this a few years back, using a converted Sankey,
>and was immediately surrounded by traders demanding the verious
>health certificates etc. Don't forget they pay a huge anount for their
>pitches at shows and quite rightly want to protect their interests, quite
>forcibly sometimes. Often one company or individual will buy the rights
>for the whole site and sub it out as they see fit (I have a mate who's
>brother is a "scran can" operator and does shows etc).
>Having said that, if you were doing "specialist" food then the organisers
>would be able to tell them in advance and perhaps placate any objections
>as you'd not be in direct competition.

I think the large shows would be out - for the reasons you give.
However I'd thought for those we could just have an evening BBQ by
ticket - more private than public. Had a few superb 'barbies' last
year, courtesy of Simon and Austin mainly, both of which started me
off on this I guess.

I was going through all of the regs to do with outside catering last
week and although they initially seem prohibitively restricting,
generally come down to keeping everything/one clean, having different
areas for cooked and uncooked stuff, keeping cold stuff cold and hot
stuff hot.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 
On or around Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:17:30 +0000, Steve
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>> On or around Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:22:02 +0000, Steve
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>> Our 101 is running exclusively on LPG now, a. we can't afford petrol,
>>> and b. The tank has a hole in it.
>>>
>>> I have been given an almost new 80 litre tank that I would like to put
>>> in the fuel system.
>>>
>>> How best to do it ? As an independent tank, switched in with a
>>> changeover valve when the main tank runs empty, or in parallelwith the
>>> main, and no valve, which AFAIK means that the LPG level in the main
>>> tank would be enough to gauge the whole system.
>>
>> If you have 2 tanks live at the same time, you need nonreturn valves on the
>> outlets. If you wire it with a changeover switch, then you just need a T
>> piece, since one tank can't feed the other, as the valves are never open
>> simultaneously. Useful in some ways, as you then have a reserve tank. Wire
>> to a separate gauge, and you can either fit a second filler of T the filler
>> pipes.
>
>I think I am beginning to like the "reserve tank" setup. Can I get a
>solenoid changeover valve rated for LPG ?

no need. Do it electrically - split the supply to the tank solenoid valve
via a changeover switch, then connect the 2 outputs one to each tank valve.


tank valve supply to main tank
------------------oC 1o----------->
2o----------->
to reserve tank


If you have an on-off-on changeover and don't label it, it provides a handy
security system like leaving the T-box in neutral, only different.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8
 
In message <[email protected]>
Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:16:01 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Dangerous Brian tried this a few years back, using a converted Sankey,
> >and was immediately surrounded by traders demanding the verious
> >health certificates etc. Don't forget they pay a huge anount for their
> >pitches at shows and quite rightly want to protect their interests, quite
> >forcibly sometimes. Often one company or individual will buy the rights
> >for the whole site and sub it out as they see fit (I have a mate who's
> >brother is a "scran can" operator and does shows etc).
> >Having said that, if you were doing "specialist" food then the organisers
> >would be able to tell them in advance and perhaps placate any objections
> >as you'd not be in direct competition.
>
> I think the large shows would be out - for the reasons you give.
> However I'd thought for those we could just have an evening BBQ by
> ticket - more private than public. Had a few superb 'barbies' last
> year, courtesy of Simon and Austin mainly, both of which started me
> off on this I guess.
>
> I was going through all of the regs to do with outside catering last
> week and although they initially seem prohibitively restricting,
> generally come down to keeping everything/one clean, having different
> areas for cooked and uncooked stuff, keeping cold stuff cold and hot
> stuff hot.
>
>

I think you need a "Basic Hygene Certificate" or something when providing
food to "the public". I'm not sure how that is defined if it's a "party"
for "invited guests" - anyway, seeing some of the people who hold them
at their work it must be rather basic - to say the least!

Judging from my days as Treasurer of the Moorlands Harness Driving Club
at our yearly "bash" there is quite a demand for hot/cold food and drink
at events with only 40 or 50 people and I'd venture that if no wages are
being paid then a fairly healthy wedge could be made for charity -
especially if you can skank the materials from suppliers. It's a mazing
how many packed lunches get ignored in favour of a decent hot dog etc!

I for one would be happy to "sponsor" a box of bangers or a bottle of
gas etc in exchange for a sticker or two - and depending on the charity
of course.

Good luck,
Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:16:17 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I think you need a "Basic Hygene Certificate" or something when providing

That's something of an academic exercise, apparently and easily sorted
(sadly, IMO).

>Judging from my days as Treasurer of the Moorlands Harness Driving Club
>at our yearly "bash" there is quite a demand for hot/cold food and drink
>at events with only 40 or 50 people and I'd venture that if no wages are
>being paid then a fairly healthy wedge could be made for charity -
>especially if you can skank the materials from suppliers.

My local belly-pork supplier is up for it! :)

> It's a mazing
>how many packed lunches get ignored in favour of a decent hot dog etc!

Yeah - the bacon buttie van at Bramham a couple of years ago did
fairly well out of me! Smashing bacon, and good value too.

>I for one would be happy to "sponsor" a box of bangers or a bottle of
>gas etc in exchange for a sticker or two - and depending on the charity
>of course.

I generally tend to raise money for The Alzheimer's Society and
MacMillan Cancer Relief (the same as the Posh Ted adventure).

We don't have to wait til I get the GS setup - if Simon and Austin are
up for it, we could do a few 'by invite' charity barbies at some of
the upcoming shows. I'm sure Steve wouldn't mind bringing the
firepit, so all we need is wood (fairly easy - I always carry a
chainsaw and an axe), charcoal bricks and food... :)


 
Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote:

> ...
> I'm sure Steve wouldn't mind bringing the
> firepit, so all we need is wood (fairly easy - I always carry a
> chainsaw and an axe),

doesn't everyone?

> charcoal bricks and food... :)

hrmm - beer? sorry, guess that goes without saying really.

--
William Tasso
 
Mother wrote:
>I'm sure Steve wouldn't mind bringing the
> firepit,

Newly revised and PORTABLE without using a GS.

Steve
 
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:48:19 +0000, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>I'm sure Steve wouldn't mind bringing the
>> firepit,
>
>Newly revised and PORTABLE without using a GS.

I've _lots_ of folded paper on my desk, too... :)

 
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