P38A - She just won’t start – sob…

V8 4.6, has been running very well for several weeks now no problems, 105K miles on the clock, battery fully charged.

This morning not been started since last Saturday, went to go out and – oh won’t start.
She turns over very well, just nothing sounds like there is no spark, nothing not even trying just like (in the old days) the HT coil had been disconnected.

There is a tank full of petrol, there is nothing on the dashboard display indicating an issue, and everything seems to work as normal except the engine.

Now the only issue I know of is the significant other did say that on Wednesday when she went out in her car she noted all the indicators on the P38 where illuminated (steady not flashing), she simply unlocked the car and relocked it and it seems to reset and has been good since (except today she won’t start).

Feels/sounds electrical not fuel or mechanical, but could be wrong

Any thoughts have checked the obvious things like fuses and lose wires etc.

Cheers
Steve

Could have lost sync - if you put your rough location down someone near you might have diagnostics or a syncmate.

Hi,

What do you mean, sorry to be thick?

Location near Grantham Lincs.

Steve

When you start a P38 the immobiliser module sends a security code to the BECM (Body Electrical Control Module) the problem is the flash memory in the BECM ages and sometimes loses the code, the codes then don't match and the the ignition system will be shut down.

op2:

You didn't say what year it is, pre 99s are GEMS (Segam) EMSs, mid 99 onwards are Thor (Bosch Motronic 5.1) EMSs.

This is an example of a syncmate for a Thor: Becm Sync-Mate Range Rover P38 Motronic | eBay

Steve,

Thanks I understand your reply now, this is new stuff to me, just hope someone can help, would leaving the battery disconnected for a few days allow things to age out and then reconnect and see what happens? I don't need her, can use the wife's L322 for the next few days.

Cheers
Steve

v8twins said:

Steve,

Thanks I understand your reply now, this is new stuff to me, just hope someone can help, would leaving the battery disconnected for a few days allow things to age out and then reconnect and see what happens? I don't need her, can use the wife's L322 for the next few days.

Cheers
Steve

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If loss of sync is your problem then - no - leaving it will make no difference the BECM has forgotten the 4 digit security code. If this is your problem then get a syncmate (or better still a BBS Nanocom evo with modules for your P38 and L322) because it will happen again, they either never go wrong or the flash memory has aged and it will reoccur.

Is the carpet wet in the drivers footwell? Indicators on is usually a sign of something more than loss of sync.

Datatek said:

Is the carpet wet in the drivers footwell? Indicators on is usually a sign of something more than loss of sync.

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Very good point Data, the four indicators of the apocalypse can mean the BECM has gone south due to water ingress.

StuckAgainSteve said:

Very good point Data, the four indicators of the apocalypse can mean the BECM has gone south due to water ingress.

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A new expression has been entered into my vocabulary.

The only positive thing that I can say is that this happened to me once, parked in an unusual (for me) location, and I haven't suffered any further problems.

Mind you that might be because I'm sensible and drive a diesel.

StuckAgainSteve said:

Very good point Data, the four indicators of the apocalypse can mean the BECM has gone south due to water ingress.

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Or been banjaxed by stray radio signals and a duff RF receiver

Datatek said:

Or been banjaxed by stray radio signals and a duff RF receiver

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Before I changed my RF receiver I allowed the battery to run down too much, I got the four indicators on, the thing is. it takes surprisingly little juice to spin a Rover V8 over, my car turned over okay, but the battery voltage was too low to keep the BECM happy. i charged the car from a static 10.8 volts) and all was well again.

Oh well, I live in the east midlands, looks like I need to move to the south coast and join the BECM!


Just lifted the carpet and yes it’s very wet under there, so guess all has gone south. Have lifted the carpet to allow it to dry, will leave it the week and try and find the ingress, it does not smell like antifreeze, smells a little perfume but not sure about that, when the O rings went last year the antifreeze smell was very pungent…. I hope it’s not that again! The coolant header tank does not look low, like last time.

Due to work demands this week, she can sit with carpet up, battery disconnected for safety and start investigating next week.

Guys, thanks very much for your help and pointers – see what next weekend brings

Cheers
Steve

Surely if it lost sync you would get an 'engine disabled' or similar message when trying to start?

Could be the crank position sensor. This recently went on mine and caused the same issues you're having. It's a 50 quid part if you fancy doing it yourself, or go the route I went an gave my trusted local garage £160 to fix it.

I've got a 2000 4.6 Vogue.

Hi all, now as for the RF receiver I am a self confessed expert here (not really just think I am!!) as it bounces around the edges (excuse the pun) of my original expertise in RF telephony technologies a few years ago and currently an RV (12, 120 & 240 Volt) electrical engineer. I ran a frequency analyser on my drive and the old girl is bombarded with 433 MHz having in the past tracked them down they are remote door bells, other cars, one neighbour runs a an illegal broadband distance generator, garage door openers and another neighbour is emitting 433 MHz at unbelievable volumes and across most channels - all in the legal range so nothing can be done. I have even logged some 315, 227 and 399 MHz frequencies not affect the car but there you go.

One fully charged battery will last about 2 days before its flat, so flat the doors won’t unlock due to being bombarded, so I updated the RF receiver to the latest version and the battery would then last 4 to 5 days before being flat.

I used to drop the battery connections when she was not going to be used for more than 16 hours, that became a pain in the ***, so I fitted a CTEK MXS5.0 Battery Charger, in the rear of the car, wired to the front and connected to the battery directly (fused both ends to prevent damage and or fire should the wiring be damaged mid steam). So park on the drive plug into the mains and forget.

The CTEK MXS5.0 Battery Charger is an intelligent smart charger, you can connect and forgot; it keeps the battery tip top and fully charged no matter how much 433 she is bombarded with. Has been running like that now for 8+ months with no problems, and no need to disconnect the battery.

Process is unlock the car unplug the cable chuck it in the boot, start the engine and drive off.

NB never start the car with he mains connected, the charger should cope with that as multiple charging systems on one battery the primary will take over the and the secondary (if it’s a smart charger) will back off and let the primary run, in this instance the alternator – not intelligent – will become the primary and CTEK MXS5.0 Battery Charger will become the secondary, but why put it under that strain and risk it.

Cheers
Steve

Hi odysseus, yes mine is also a 2000 4.6 Vogue, interesting thought. How did you prove it please?
Steve

v8twins said:

Hi odysseus, yes mine is also a 2000 4.6 Vogue, interesting thought. How did you prove it please?
Steve

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Erm, by calling the AA when the thing wouldn't start when I was trying to leave work.

The diagnostics on the van identified a fault, which was then later cofirmed by my local garage. Sorry I can't be more help than that.

If it helps, there was no spark on any of the plugs and no fuel was being pumped. The crank sensor was giving duff information to the engine management.

Okay,

Thanks, must admit the symptoms are the same, but then so is the other issue re wet carpet! Oh well need to leave it for now, start digging next weekend.