P38 EAS Lean

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J

John Bourke

Member
Posts
30
Location
Sydney, Australia
Being new to this site doesn't allow me to cover information already covered previously but I can't locate any mention of this cure. I own three HSE 4.6 vehicles, all pre 1996 and in pretty good condition. I realise that these cars are old and this may not help anyone but here goes. Two cars developed a lean, to different sides. After several years of the usual valve block rebuilds, height sensor changes, replacing springs, re-calibrating system and ECU/wiring issues, I solved the problem by altering the position of height sensors so that the "bit counts" are as close to equal from side to side as possible, with height calibration blocks in place. To achieve this needs small custom made brackets, altered-by-slotting mounting adaptors and careful selection of sensors. Keeping the side to side values within 2 units of each other, still different from front to rear, somehow keeps the EAS ECU on track and the problem is cured on both cars. My server is a Faultmate MSV-2. I have found a way of "restoring" sensors as well if anyone is interested.
 
Thanks for the acknowledgement of my post, I have written similar information in the Blackbox Solutions forums but a lot more detail and received no response. Maybe these cars are beyond most people electrically, pity because I get absolutely reliable service out of my small fleet.
 
John Bourke said:
Thanks for the acknowledgement of my post, I have written similar information in the Blackbox Solutions forums but a lot more detail and received no response. Maybe these cars are beyond most people electrically, pity because I get absolutely reliable service out of my small fleet.
Click to expand...
There are a few here who feel as you do about P38s and many who sing the praises of the EAS system (when it works properly:D). When some of them see this in the morning, I'm sure they'll chime in.
My RRC was converted to coils before I bought it, so I have no experience with EAS.
 
Thanks again, you have missed out on the joys of EAS, it's not too difficult to install it to make the old RR far better than the "average" vehicle on offer from other manufacturers. There's a lot of mis-information around about this system. It's mid-day here and I have some repairs to do to a Rangie to keep my retirement joyous. My trade is electrical/electronic and it's good to use 45 years of work experience in keeping these cars "good". John
 
John Bourke said:
Thanks again, you have missed out on the joys of EAS, it's not too difficult to install it to make the old RR far better than the "average" vehicle on offer from other manufacturers. There's a lot of mis-information around about this system. It's mid-day here and I have some repairs to do to a Rangie to keep my retirement joyous. My trade is electrical/electronic and it's good to use 45 years of work experience in keeping these cars "good". John
Click to expand...
Your experience will be appreciated here, if you decide to stay with us. It can get a bit irreverent at LZ and some don't take to this crew. :D

I live in the US on the western slope of the Colorado Rockies. My coil conversion is HD Bilstein and it suits my needs quite well. I spend a lot of time off-roading because of my work and hobbies, often with a big load, and I honestly can't see how the EAS would serve me better for the way I drive.
But as I've stated to others who have chided me about my coils, I have no experience with them. If I did, perhaps I would think differently.
 
Good answer, I can understand that point of view. Talking about hobbies, mine is collecting McCulloch chainsaws, genuine ones, that is, prior to the "takeover". I believe you live in an area where they used the 125cc saws, I own two of them as well as over 20 others. Could be worse, I could collect Range Rovers. One of my great grandfathers came from the US, east coast, I think. I wondered why you were messaging if you were from the UK.
 
West Slope Rover said:
Your experience will be appreciated here, if you decide to stay with us. It can get a bit irreverent at LZ and some don't take to this crew. :D
Get irreverent? some don't take to us? only if they are thin skinned and have no sense of humour.:D Nice to see you haven't taken the "easy" option by coiling your motors John. Stick with us, you will get used to our sarcasm, wit and a lot of good advice.;):D
Click to expand...
 
West Slope Rover said:
Your experience will be appreciated here, if you decide to stay with us. It can get a bit irreverent at LZ and some don't take to this crew. :D

I live in the US on the western slope of the Colorado Rockies. My coil conversion is HD Bilstein and it suits my needs quite well. I spend a lot of time off-roading because of my work and hobbies, often with a big load, and I honestly can't see how the EAS would serve me better for the way I drive.
But as I've stated to others who have chided me about my coils, I have no experience with them. If I did, perhaps I would think differently.
Click to expand...

Big loads are where the EAS comes into its own. I often have a ton of wood in the back up in the woods and it is as good or better than unladen. My mate's jap pickup starts to hit obstacles with its diff. Only change I would like is full diff-locks.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Big loads are where the EAS comes into its own. I often have a ton of wood in the back up in the woods and it is as good or better than unladen. My mate's jap pickup starts to hit obstacles with its diff. Only change I would like is full diff-locks.
Click to expand...
How can he be bouncing off the diff?? The diff remains a fixed height from the ground relative to the wheel/tyre.....you colud have a 100" lift and the diff will still be the same height off the ground!!
 
Saint.V8 said:
How can he be bouncing off the diff?? The diff remains a fixed height from the ground relative to the wheel/tyre.....you colud have a 100" lift and the diff will still be the same height off the ground!!
Click to expand...

Valid point. I'm on extended ride-height so I just float over the old stumps and bumps. His leaf-springs are sunk right down with his nose int he air.
 
John Bourke said:
Being new to this site doesn't allow me to cover information already covered previously but I can't locate any mention of this cure. I own three HSE 4.6 vehicles, all pre 1996 and in pretty good condition. I realise that these cars are old and this may not help anyone but here goes. Two cars developed a lean, to different sides. After several years of the usual valve block rebuilds, height sensor changes, replacing springs, re-calibrating system and ECU/wiring issues, I solved the problem by altering the position of height sensors so that the "bit counts" are as close to equal from side to side as possible, with height calibration blocks in place. To achieve this needs small custom made brackets, altered-by-slotting mounting adaptors and careful selection of sensors. Keeping the side to side values within 2 units of each other, still different from front to rear, somehow keeps the EAS ECU on track and the problem is cured on both cars. My server is a Faultmate MSV-2. I have found a way of "restoring" sensors as well if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

Within 2 beats side to side is the method used in RAVE for EAS calibration.
 
wammers said:
Within 2 beats side to side is the method used in RAVE for EAS calibration.
Click to expand...
Without being able to rotate a sensor to make the readings within 2 bits, there is no way I know of to stop the over inflation of one side springs and under inflation of the other side springs. Most P38s can operate with quite different side to side "bit counts", I've seen even 10 and the system works perfectly but my two cars just ignored the calibration-set values until I physically moved the offending sensors to get the readings within 2 bits. Then the problems disappeared and haven't returned. An "expert" I know of just selects sensors which are sufficiently similar to do the same job but most people, myself included, can't afford the luxury of a range of sensors from which to select.
 
John Bourke said:
Without being able to rotate a sensor to make the readings within 2 bits, there is no way I know of to stop the over inflation of one side springs and under inflation of the other side springs. Most P38s can operate with quite different side to side "bit counts", I've seen even 10 and the system works perfectly but my two cars just ignored the calibration-set values until I physically moved the offending sensors to get the readings within 2 bits. Then the problems disappeared and haven't returned. An "expert" I know of just selects sensors which are sufficiently similar to do the same job but most people, myself included, can't afford the luxury of a range of sensors from which to select.
Click to expand...

Sensors should be set within 2 bits side to side with the heights + or - 7 mm side to side. With old used sensors this maybe a little difficult without tweaking the brackets or sensor arms.
 
John Bourke said:
Without being able to rotate a sensor to make the readings within 2 bits, there is no way I know of to stop the over inflation of one side springs and under inflation of the other side springs. Most P38s can operate with quite different side to side "bit counts", I've seen even 10 and the system works perfectly but my two cars just ignored the calibration-set values until I physically moved the offending sensors to get the readings within 2 bits. Then the problems disappeared and haven't returned. An "expert" I know of just selects sensors which are sufficiently similar to do the same job but most people, myself included, can't afford the luxury of a range of sensors from which to select.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that is because yours are early ones? I know some changes came in in 1997 but don't know how much the EAS was affected. Similarly in 1998 / 99 some more changes came in.

On the other hand, mine's a '95 and mine doesn't lean and I'm pretty certain mine aren't within 2 bitcounts (side to side). Can check.
 
I'm afraid that there is some misunderstanding of details in this matter. My experiences concerned two new sets of sensors and with height blocks in place, side to side readings were too far apart, not to calibrate but for the system to remain functional over extended time. I eliminated all other possibilities such as ECU, valve block and driver, multiplugs and connectors, voltage levels at ECU connector and integrity of all grounding points. I replaced the ECU, valve block and driver with those from my third car which had never given any EAS problems, even doing a calibration to suit the problem car and the fault returned after a short time. I re-entered the donor car's values and re-fitted it in the donor car. It worked properly and continues to do so. Rotating one of each pair (front and rear) with height blocks fitted and equalising bit counts is and was the solution.for each of my affected cars. To further eliminate possible system faults, I load tested each individual wire of the EAS harness. Passing a low current supplied by a regulated dc supply through each wire and measuring the voltage across a high resistance load confirmed that all connections and wires were intact and in good order. All of this testing, of course before the solution was discovered. Target values should be reached by the system and be withing 2 units of the calibrated value. I have never seen any information which says that the calibration values need to be within 2 units side to side either in a post anywhere or in the Rave data. There was a revision in a bulletin circulated by Rover in about 1998 saying that in some conditions, the ECU should be replaced.
 
John Bourke said:
I'm afraid that there is some misunderstanding of details in this matter. My experiences concerned two new sets of sensors and with height blocks in place, side to side readings were too far apart, not to calibrate but for the system to remain functional over extended time. I eliminated all other possibilities such as ECU, valve block and driver, multiplugs and connectors, voltage levels at ECU connector and integrity of all grounding points. I replaced the ECU, valve block and driver with those from my third car which had never given any EAS problems, even doing a calibration to suit the problem car and the fault returned after a short time. I re-entered the donor car's values and re-fitted it in the donor car. It worked properly and continues to do so. Rotating one of each pair (front and rear) with height blocks fitted and equalising bit counts is and was the solution.for each of my affected cars. To further eliminate possible system faults, I load tested each individual wire of the EAS harness. Passing a low current supplied by a regulated dc supply through each wire and measuring the voltage across a high resistance load confirmed that all connections and wires were intact and in good order. All of this testing, of course before the solution was discovered. Target values should be reached by the system and be withing 2 units of the calibrated value. I have never seen any information which says that the calibration values need to be within 2 units side to side either in a post anywhere or in the Rave data. There was a revision in a bulletin circulated by Rover in about 1998 saying that in some conditions, the ECU should be replaced.
Click to expand...

Look in testbook data. 2 bits side to side with the heights at + or - 7 mm in use. It is listed in my EAS how to if you had bothered to look at it.
 
wammers said:
Look in testbook data. 2 bits side to side with the heights at + or - 7 mm in use. It is listed in my EAS how to if you had bothered to look at it.
Click to expand...

New member. He may not have come across the burgeoning Technical section yet. Mind you, scroll too fast and you miss it. Maybe put a subfolder in it and call it "Unvalidated - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK".
 
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