P38 Diesel start problems

parranger · Dec 19, 2010

I have a 2001 car fitted with an earlier engine. At some point the engine has been replaced for unknown reasons. A recent blown gasket meant the engine being taken apart and rebuilt with a new cylinder head. I now have severe starting problems but when it goes it runs well.

A diagnostics check showed that the needle was not in the right position on the injector fitted with the electrical connection lead. A replacement injector was sought but the plug key on the electrical lead prevented it from being installed into the harness. This is the point when I realised the engine had been replaced. I think the change might be from the non ERG version the ERG version car? The ERG valve has been blanked off. Filling the key on the plug allowed it to fit and the car has run with this arrangement. Should I get an early version sensing injector or am I OK with the mods.

Can anyone advise me what the changes were and do the valve or injector timing settings need to be altered. What else could cause the cold start problem.

Datatek · Dec 19, 2010

Glow plugs are the most likely cause of a cold start problem

p38on22s · Dec 19, 2010

i thought the injectors was the same through out the p38 diesel range and the fuel pump was changed on the later models

Datatek · Dec 19, 2010

Connector might be different but the injector is the same I think.

wammers · Dec 19, 2010

The keyway to stop sensors being interchanged is there for a reason. I think the sensor change when EGR was introduced. Maybe the wires are not in the correct orientation. Glow plugs as Data says are favourite for bad cold start.

parranger · Dec 19, 2010

Do you know what the difference is with the injector pump? Is it timing?

wammers · Dec 19, 2010

parranger said:
Do you know what the difference is with the injector pump? Is it timing?

There are two different number four injectors. One for EGR one for none EGR. This sensor measures start of injection for ECU. EGR and none EGR engines have different timing setups. Same injector pump different sensor. Injector pump setup is same for both. Check your glow plugs.

parranger · Dec 19, 2010

The glow plugs were changed for 6 Brit Part units..are these OK? There is some suggestion that they may not be as good as some others. Can anyone comment on the blanking off the EGR valve? I had this done with my classic 300TDI and the performance was improved. Was hoping that it would be the same for the P38?

wammers · Dec 19, 2010

parranger said:
The glow plugs were changed for 6 Brit Part units..are these OK? There is some suggestion that they may not be as good as some others. Can anyone comment on the blanking off the EGR valve? I had this done with my classic 300TDI and the performance was improved. Was hoping that it would be the same for the P38?

It was reported on here a few threads back as improving fuel economy quite a lot. Worth a try i suppose.

Datatek · Dec 19, 2010

****part glowplugs

Try some quality ones, many have reported problems with cheapo ones. BERU, NGK, Bosch, Delphi seem to be favoured

parranger · Dec 19, 2010

Wammers you mentioned that the injector pump timing is the same for both versions of the engine. What is the best setting for this? adv/ret

Datatek · Dec 19, 2010

parranger said:
Wammers you mentioned that the injector pump timing is the same for both versions of the engine. What is the best setting for this? adv/ret

Expert job methinks but look at RAVE if you want the timing.

parranger · Dec 19, 2010

Ok thanks for the advice. I think there could be a problem with the heater plugs..or the timing with the No 4 plug as the engine simply won't fire. I think it needs a sniff of Easy Start?

Datatek · Dec 19, 2010

parranger said:
Ok thanks for the advice. I think there could be a problem with the heater plugs..or the timing with the No 4 plug as the engine simply won't fire. I think it needs a sniff of Easy Start?

Step one, check you have 12 volts at the glowplugs when the glowplug light is on. Step two, If yes, change the glowplugs, cheapo glowplugs do not seem to work.
Why go looking for deep problems? You say it runs OK when it starts.

wammers · Dec 19, 2010

parranger said:
Wammers you mentioned that the injector pump timing is the same for both versions of the engine. What is the best setting for this? adv/ret

The static timing is critical. You need special tools to do it. It's not a twist and try situation as some would seem to think. There are two settings one for vehicles that have done less than 20,000 Km and one for vehicles over this mileage. This to allow for stretch in timing chain. Timing is set within +- 0.001" from the quoted settings with a DTI.
The ECU then adjusts the pump advanced or retarded according to the engine temp, load, speed Etc. If you have a couple of glow plugs down that would give a problem in particular at our present temps. They like six glow plugs even in summer, the fuel map is not good for cold start apparently, as the pump wears it is even more critical and really does need the glow plugs.

parranger · Dec 19, 2010

I have heard of the RAVE manuals mentioned before, where are these to be found. Has anyone got the web site? Typing RAVE into a web search brings up all sorts of weird and wonderful web sites!

Datatek · Dec 19, 2010

Green Oval Downloads, or use the Forum Search (not the Google Search) at the top of the page, just enter RAVE.

parranger · Dec 22, 2010

I now have the RAVE manuals and have looked up the timing for the P38 diesel cam shaft. According to the manual ..Engines with recorded mileage in excess of 20,000 km (12,500 miles):Insert a 4.61 mm (0.18 in) thickness of feeler gauges between camshaft holding tool LRT-12-112 and inlet manifold side of cylinder head. This seems a a large 'shim' Has anyone got any experience of setting the cam up this way?

Datatek · Dec 22, 2010

parranger said:
I now have the RAVE manuals and have looked up the timing for the P38 diesel cam shaft. According to the manual ..Engines with recorded mileage in excess of 20,000 km (12,500 miles):Insert a 4.61 mm (0.18 in) thickness of feeler gauges between camshaft holding tool LRT-12-112 and inlet manifold side of cylinder head. This seems a a large 'shim' Has anyone got any experience of setting the cam up this way?

If the thing runs OK once it has started why FFS are you going to mess with the timing when the problem could be as simple as cheapo glowplugs?
Check the simple things first.

wammers · Dec 22, 2010

parranger said:
I now have the RAVE manuals and have looked up the timing for the P38 diesel cam shaft. According to the manual ..Engines with recorded mileage in excess of 20,000 km (12,500 miles):Insert a 4.61 mm (0.18 in) thickness of feeler gauges between camshaft holding tool LRT-12-112 and inlet manifold side of cylinder head. This seems a a large 'shim' Has anyone got any experience of setting the cam up this way?

This is to allow for chain/sprocket wear in from crank to pump and then from pump to camshaft. It is rather like the two pump timing positions this also to allow for chain/sprocket wear in. It is really difficult to get cam timing wrong. Unless your the bloke who changed your head of course. If you were to change all the chains and sprockets for new ones you would not use this setting. But after engine had done a further 20,000 km you would. It's about chains/sprockets bedding in that's all.

P38 Diesel start problems

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